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Hysteroscopy - Athens

202K views 1K replies 165 participants last post by  tracyl247 
#1 ·
^fairydust^ New Home ^fairydust^

This is the place for all Hysteroscopy chat.

Other threads that you may find of use are:-

The Welcome/Question/General thread, where you can ask general question http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=289719.0

The inbetweeners thread, where you can go and chat while you wait to start treatment or if you have had a negative cycle http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=289718.0

They current cycle thread, where you can go and chat when you start your treatment - you can also use this thread if you have been advised to tx naturally after having a hysterscopy http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=289720.0

Please make so not duplicate your posts across all the Greece threads, any duplicate posts will be removed.

You will find lots of information in agates file, which you will find here http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=274114.0

For a quick guide I have copied some of the information -

Having hysteroscopy in Athens
Hysteroscopies are normally scheduled either at the Leto hospital (http://www.leto.gr/default.aspx, 7-13 Mouson Str., Athens) or the Yaia maternity department of the Iatriko Kentro Athena (Central Hospital of Athens) on Distomou 5-7 , Marousi. http://www.iatriko.gr/en/gaia-obstetrics-gynaegology-clinic/

please note that the Yaia has recently located to the Iatriko Kentro Athena (Central Athens Medical centre) which is on Distomo street near the Kifsias bus stop (a taxi ride or a bus ride (route 550 from the stop called Ippokrateio near Serum on Leoforos Kifisias to the stop Vlastou)- Its too far to walk from Serum and not particularly near to a convenient metro station unless you catch the metro to Neratziotissa (but that means going all the way into the centre of Athens to Monastakiri and then changing onto the green line 1 because the metro station for serum (Ambelokipoi or Megarro Mousikkis) is on the blue line 3 and you have to go into the centre of Athens to change lines. Please note that that not all the taxi drivers know the location of the new hospital so make very sure that they know they are going to the Iatriko Kentro Athena in Marousi - its actually very easy to find from Ambelokipoi, just straight up North on Leoforas Kiffisias, but for some reason, the new location is confusing the taxi drivers and they keep going to locations in the South of the city rather than teh North

(My google map: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=216291340940802168436.0004bfd72e971a5fd1675)

You can walk to the Leto from the vicinity of Serum but its a a relatively long walk - so you might want to get a taxi. Most ladies do get a taxi back to Serum afterwards because they are tired. Walking from the new Yaia and at the Iatriko Kento Athinon is just too far!

Hysteroscopies are normally scheduled for just after your period has finished so that the lining is thin and there isn't too much debris from your period - its not possible to do hysteroscopy if you have your period (because the view is obscured) or if you might be pregnant (because the baby might be harmed). If your cycles are irregular or fall at an inconvenient time, you may want use the pill (e.g., microgynon 30, marvelon, yasmin - started on about day 3 of your cycle) to keep your lining thin until the hysteroscopy, or to fix the timing of your period. You can get the pill for free from your GP or can get it fairly cheaply from a UK pharmacy using a private prescription posted from Serum or emailed to Rigcharm pharmacy - if you are paying for the pill, bear in mind that something like microgynon 30 is much cheaper (about £3 for 3 x 21 pills) than yasmin. You will need a medical review at the hospital before the surgery which means filling in some forms, some blood and urine tests and an ECG (heart monitoring). This takes at least an hour so is often done at the hospital the day before, particularly if your hysteroscopy is scheduled to be done at the Yaia. You need to show your passport when you fill out the forms. Serum can sometimes send one of their staff to the hospital with you to help you with filling out the forms etc. You may have to wait for the blood tests to be cleared by phone before you can leave in case they need to draw any more blood so you will want to take a book to read.

You will be asked to fast (no food or drink or water) from midnight the night before your hysteroscopy. You need to remove contact lenses, make up, jewellery and nail polish and to bring some sanitary towels with you. Its best to leave your valuables at the hotel but you will need your passport to confirm your identity. You will want to bring a snack to eat afterwards and if you are staying at a hotel, you might want to ask if they can make you a packed breakfast if you have paid for breakfast included. The surgery will normally take less than 30 minutes but there can be quite a bit of waiting around (emergency surgeries may need to be carried out first) and recovery time.

When you come round in the recovery room, you will be asked to stay lying down until the nurses are happy for you to get up. If you are thirsty, they may let you initially have only tiny squirts or sips of water until they are sure you are safe to have a proper drink.

The hospital staff are very efficient and it can feel a bit brusque e.g., as soon as you get to the operating theatre, one nurse will quickly put your feet up in stirrups at the same time as someone else is giving you the anaesthetic and someone else is taping down your eyelids. When you are recovering, if they want to check you are not bleeding heavily, they will lift up your gown to check without much preamble and not explain what they doing- and they don't seem to be that concerned with making sure you are covered up e.g., for listening to your heart. It seemed to me to be more a culture where visitors are excluded so that the surgical areas only had patients and staff and therefore, covering you up, wasn't seen as important. Your partner or anyone else accompanying you will have to wait in the waiting area until you are ready to go back to the waiting area.

You have to pay the hospital fee (about 550E) by card/cash to the hospital before you leave. The surgeon's fee (about 1000E) needs to be paid to serum in cash because this fee gets paid to the surgeon and cannot go through the clinic's books - Serum do not get any fee themselves for arranging the hysteroscopy. If you are not comfortable with carrying cash from the UK, you can arrange to draw it out from the ATM machines near the clinic (e.g, near the Athens Tower), or if you really don't want to pay cash, you could talk to Serum about making a bank transfer to Serum but I understand this would have to be at least 1 week in advance of your visit and would cost an extra 50Eu on top because of the added complexity for Serum.

After you have recovered you will normally get a taxi back to Serum - its easy to hail a taxi from the main street just outside the hospital - so you can have a chat with Penny about the findings from the hysteroscopy. The surgeon will normally provide a short video of the hysteroscopy on a DVD which you can view on Penny's TV. If you haven't had the locus medicus menstrual blood test for Chlamydia or the Life Code test for 6 'bugs', Penny can take a cervical blood sample when you get there as you will have some bleeding following the hysteroscopy. The results of the locus test are normally back within 1 or 2 days and will be emailed to you.

Penny will usually prescribe some cyclacur after the hysteroscopy and will discuss with you whether you need to take just the white tablets or the white tablets and then the brown tablets (usually you take the white tablets then the brown tablets but stop the brown tablets if your period arrives whilst you are still taking them) and whether you need any 'resting' cycles on cyclacur before you can do your next fertility treatment (depending on the findings from hysteroscopy). Penny may also prescribe some antibiotics or suggest you buy some antibiotics to take back with you to the UK just in case the locus test suggests you need them. If you are intending to cycle soon, you might want to take the opportunity to buy the medication you will need for your fertility treatment to take it back with you - especially if you need avekap 0.1mg for an OE cycle because you can't buy that in the UK.

If I have an aquascan and its abnormal can I have a hysteroscopy the same day?
Probably not because you do need to fast (no food or water) before the general anaesthetic and you do need serum to be able to get you a surgical slot and a doc.

Can I have hysteroscopy at any time of the month?
The ideal time to go is just after your period finishes - so the lining is thin but you don't have any bleeding obscuring the 'view'. A thin lining makes the surgery easier especially if you end up needing to have something complex done like fibroid removal. So although technically it may be possible to have hysteroscopy at any time of the month (provided they are sure they can't possibly be pregnant), it is best to go when your lining is thin, just in case you unexpectedly need a more complex surgery. You can't have hysteroscopy after ovulation if there is a chance you might be pregnant. If you need to book flights etc and your periods are not predictable, you can ask Penny if you can use the pill to fix the timing of a bleed, or to prevent the lining thickening up (and hold off a bleed). You normally need to start the pill (a low dose combined pill like marvelon or microgynon) on about day 3 of your natural period, but can then take it for between 3-6 weeks (usually) if that helps your timing - a bleed will normally start on day 3-5 after stopping the pill. In the UK you can get the pill for free from your GP - although technically its only available free on the NHS if its for contraception. You can get a private prescription from Serum and use that to buy it from any pharmacy.

Why am I being advised to try naturally after hysteroscopy?
Where the hysteroscopy or infection testing reveals a problem that can be addressed (e.g., adhesions in the uterus that are cut away), Penny often advises couples to try naturally for at least 2 cycles - just in case the main barrier to infertility has just been fixed. This may seem like an unnecessary delay, especially if you have been trying to conceive for many years, but she very often does see spontaneous pregnancies after hysterscopy/antibiotics. Its likely that if hysteroscopy has dealt with a problem, pregnancy will result quickly, so its worth just trying for 2 or 3 cycles just in case you no longer need IVF. Experience shows that, in these circumstances, natural conception is likely to happen quickly or not at all, so only 2 or 3 months is justified before continuing with IVF.

Thank you

Tracy ;D
 
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#2 ·
Good afternoon Ladies,
Has anyone ever had a septum removed at one of the clinics Penny recommends? We are due to fly out next month after AF arrives and I already know I have a septum in about the top 60% of uterus. Penny has recommended having it removed, subject to aquascan, but the NHS have said they would leave it in place.

I am slightly worried about having it removed as we do not know whether this would affect any implantation - never had a BFP after 5yrs TTC. Our issue seems to be fragmentation!

Has anyone had any experience - good or bad? I know the hospitals do them everyday, but I'm worrying about complications  :-\
 
#3 ·
I think this article summarises the debate quite well. Fertile women who manage to have babies despite a septum suggest there is no need to remove a septum for them - but in infertililty patients who have struggled to get pg with a septum (or who have had multiple miscarriages with a septum) then removal seems to make a big difference to their chance of a live birth.

http://fertstert.wordpress.com/2008/11/04/hysteroscopic-resection-of-the-uterine-septum-is-it-always-a-necessity/

I think a lot of docs rely (lazily) on the argument that if someone can get pg with a problem then we can ignore it for other ladies -but following that argument is pretty daft, because then you'd say that because some women with thyroid problems get pg we don't need to treat that, or diabetes, or chlamydia, or with low sperm count etc
/links

I had the hysto through serum a couple of years ago - and was impressed with their level of care - enough to give up on Tx in the UK and switch to serum for Tx - but I didn't have a septum myself - however, I'm sure if you browse through the old serum hysto thread you'll find examples of ladies who had septa removed and got their babies after doing that.

I guess the other obvious point to think about is that the NHS tend to be extremely conservative - they do tend to prefer not doing something.

best of luck whatever you decide

a x
 
#4 ·
Bookmarking
 
#5 ·
Hi Barbar,


I had a septum repaired last month at the Leto.


Dr Panos did the hysto and he was lovely. The septum hadn't been visible on aquascans and to be honest, I was shocked that it was there at all as I have a 12 year old son (though it did take me a while to fall pg with him).


Septums aren't normally removed as I understand it from what I have read. It is normally sliced into in whats called a 'resection'. Penny and Dr Panos described it as being like hardened, dead tissue (a bit like having hard, dead skin on your heal). It is difficult for implantation to occur if you have a septum as it has no blood supply and so if an embryo does manage to implant there, as soon as the placenta starts to form and need a rich lining, miscarriage is likely to happen.


Dr P sliced across my septum (as we saw on the DVD) and kept going until he reached a blood supply underneath it. He then stopped cutting as going any deeper can cause scarring. It was explained to me that the septum should then start to retract back into the uterus, allowing a normal lining to grow over the top of it, hopefully resolving the problems it is causing. Since septums normally cover the fundus, implantation with one is more difficult as it's normally the place implantation would occur and I think usually the area with the richest lining.


After my op, I felt absolutely fine, a few nipping pains in the area but nothing painful enough to take anything for. I did bleed for about 6/7 days afterwards, but it was only like a light period which turned to spotting towards the end. I am now on my 2nd AF since the op and really happy that I am only on day 2 but it's much improved with fresher and normal flow (rather than the brown spotting I used to have for the duration). I am hoping for me after 5 failed goes that the hysto was the answer (even though I feel terrified of going again).


After my op, me and Mr Google were in research overdrive and I felt reassured that I had done the right thing with the success stories I was reading. I am just so glad that I didn't fall pg only to lose my baby later on due to a poor functioning placenta. I had pre-eclampsia with my son, so it makes me wonder if the septum was causing the placenta to fail back then too.


I hope all goes well for you, I am sure you will be well looked after, I was VERY impressed with Dr Panos, he is a lovely surgeon and from what other ladies have said on these threads, he and the other surgeons out in Athens doing hystos are very skilled at what they do. I don;t think Penny would use anyone she didn't have complete faith in.....BFP successes mean too much to her. If it's any comfort, I was terrified before I went for mine as was going alone, but I would go back again alone and do it if I had to xxx
 
#7 ·
Thanks ekitten and Agate for you replys. I feel reassured, that we will be doing the right thing. Fingers crossed for a good result!
 
#8 ·
Hi
i had hysto last week and just wanted to re-itreate how lovely Dr Panos is. I was extremely nervous (and was with DH) i think due to complex lap had in  the past but Dr P was really reassuring, thoughtful and gave me all the time i needed to go over things and ask questions, then took DH off to buy him something from cafeteria whilst he waited for me. All the theatre and recovery staff were great too. Bar i am sure you will be in great hands with him.


Can i just check, since having hysto i have had no real pain or discomfort but have had light flow of rust/orangy/brown discharge is this normal or should it be a fresh red blood flow?
Thanks
D
 
#9 ·
if its brownish its likely to just be some old blood - its normally for some sort of spotting to continue on and off until your next period. 

the time to worry is if you get

- severe pain
- fever
- smelly or greenish discharge

.... then you'd need to see a doc to check/treat you for infection.
 
#10 ·
Hi,

I just wondered does anyone know if it's normal to have a delayed AF following hysteroscopy in Athens? I'm a couple of days late and wondering if maybe I won't get AF until I've finished the whole Cyclacur pack, or if I'll need to take something to induce a bleed.

From what the nurses said to me, I was expecting AF to arrive on time, so just wanted to see if anyone else had experienced this?

would be grateful for any of your thoughts x
 
#11 ·
if you started the cyclacur right at the start of your cycle, it'd probably prevent your ovulation completely that cycle, so you'll get a bleed 3-7 days after you finish the last tab.

if your ovulation was almost on its way, or had already happened when you started cyclacur, then you'd expect your AF at the normal time.

if your ovulation was getting going but not there yet, it might be delayed, so your AF might be quite late.
 
#12 ·
thanks agate. I had the hysto on CD11 and started taking the cyclacur that day. I always ov on CD13 - and thought I had this time - but the ov pains I normally get were mingled in with cramps after the hysto, so I could be mistaken. I've also had EWCM towards the end of this cycle, so probably safe to say I'm all off kilter at the moment. I guess i'll see what happens a few days after I stop the cyclacur - if still nothing I'll ask Penny what she wants to do with me!

I have to say, your guide to the Athens hysto was invaluable - My DH and I found it so helpful while we were preparing for it. And everything you said was spot on as well (the topless flashing before the procedure, the nurses changing pads in front of the whole ward, etc). I actually came round from the op to find myself naked from the waist down and being lifted onto a trolley by a male nurse - a tad embarrassing. I did take some comfort from remembering that others, like you, had been there before me though - and lived to tell the tale!
thanks again x
 
#14 ·
sorry hon - didn't mean to make you anxious. Dignity goes out the window (but then, we're all used to that by now!) BUT I can't stress enough how wonderful my doctor was - he was the nicest DR I've ever encountered and made me feel calm and like I was in v. safe hands - even in spite of the indignities! I think Europeans are just a little less inhibited maybe.

I saw my DH straight after the procedure - the DR brought him into the corridor so he could see me before I went into the recovery room. The Dr also spoke to him and explained how it had all gone - before coming to see me and wishing me luck for the future.

There really is nothing to fear. A few funny stories maybe but you're in good hands. The op was done v. well too - I've been in worse shape after ECs tbh.

Good luck - I really hope it goes well for you. I definitely have no regrets x



 
#15 ·
Bluecat
Phew, that's calmed me down!  It's ridiculous I know but being overseas for a procedure is making me really anxious so it's great to hear positive experiences.  It's good to know you can see your DH so soon, I don't come round from anaesthetics very well so I'm happier knowing he will be around.  Last time after light sedation my blood pressure dropped really low and it took me a good couple of hours to come round properly, guess I should mention that to the doc before I go in!  ::)
Thanks for putting me at ease
Love Flump
 
#16 ·
Hi Flump
Just wanted to reply to you as I too was anxious last week when went for hysto and also suffer from low BP after aneathestic so told the lovely Dr Panos and the aneathatist in theatre they were very relaxed about it and altho I did have bit lower BP i was unsymptomatic (felt fine) nurse was still bit cautious though sat me up on trolley for bit then sat overside of trolley then in chair for 20mins until would let me go.
I left DH about 0830 in waiting room whilst nurse done paperwork tthen cardio Dr done ECG checks, etc and was so nervous and bit tearful! taken up to very nice waiting room when one of receptionist brought in DH to wait with me- i was so relieved. We waited about 20mins for Dr Panos who chatted over any concerns, the procedure and questions then i was taken down to theatre whilst DH went to cafeteria to wait. I came round in recovery about 1030, DH told me i saw him in corridoor on way to recovery but i have no recollection of this! ;D  i got out of recovery about 1140.

Be reassured it all went really well. yes the Dr doing ECG a bit brusque and shirt undone for few mins whilst trace done and recovery nurse did lift my sheet to put on pad and net knickers but all in all it wasnt a bad experience at all!
they really know what they are doing.
Help this helps
D xx
 
#18 ·
Sorry folks, I keep thinking of something else!  I know I need to expect some bleeding following hysto but is it heavy period type flow or just light (panty liner type) Also roughly how long will this last?  Just want to be as prepared as I can & know I have all I need in my hand luggage!  :-\
Flump x
 
#19 ·
flump: it varies depending how much cutting the doc needs to do.  I'd be prepared for period like flow for the first few hours, then light period bleeding for the next couple of days - but in reality, it'll probably be lighter than this.  Obviously, you can pick up more pads/liners at any pharmacy in athens - there are several near the clinic - although they are closed sat pm and all day sunday, and most afternoons - opening hours in greece are quite different to the UK!
 
#21 ·
penny12 said:
Hi all lovely ladies, John (Sharon's husband) has asked me to post here something from him. So I'm posting this from him but first of all I want to truly thank him and Sharon for the great service they organized and for all their support ^hugme^ :

"Hi ladies and Gents, it is with regret that I am writing this, but, with immediate effect I will no longer be available for airport transfers.

There are a number of reasons for this which I won't go into, the main reason is the Greek economy and it is becoming increasingly difficult to survive. We are leaving Greece at the beginning of August to go "back home".
I would like to take this opportunity to thank each and every one of you who have used my/our services as I have also done some work for IVF travel solutions. It has been a very exciting, and interesting period of my life to meet, and be involved with the success stories, and those who have not been lucky enough YET, to get what they deserve.
As most of you will know we have two beautiful daughters thanks to Penny and her team at Serum. There is hope for all of you and I wish you all well for your future and ongoing treatment.

Once again thanks for brightening my life.

John (Sharon's husband)"
 
#22 ·
Hi Flump,

my bleeding was quite heavy for the first 48 hours and then light bleeding for the next 2 weeks. From what I've read, this is unusual though and I put it down to the fact that there was a lot of scar tissue to be removed in my case. Even with the heavy bleeding, I found it was okay with a larger sanitary towel - just take a supply of panty liners and towels and you'll be fine. x
 
#25 ·
Berrychelt and Sarah140  Really sorry.  Missed my flight this morning :( . I hate living in Cornwall and so moving back to Dorset as it's so hard to travel from here.  I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.  The best thing about Cornwall is...the road driving out!

Hope ur hystos go smoothly

I really dont know what Im gonna do, so it's back to the drawing board for me  :mad:  xx
 
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