* Author Topic: OneDayAtATime ICSI#1+#2 BFN (DH-Azoospermia) Off to ARGC for #3! BFP-Twins!  (Read 27607 times)

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Offline OneDayAtATime

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As expected, sadly another BFN.

Things to be grateful for....

1. It seems that I don't have a 16 day 2ww, I don't seem to be able to get past day 12 without spotting, so 12 days is less being in limbo than 16...
2. If it's meant to work 3rd time or 4th time, we're still one step closer.
3. I felt so much better on the short protocol that I'm even less worried about the effects of the next treatment.
4. We're starting 2011 much further forward than we started 2010, not even knowing if DH had any sperm.
5. I have someone to help me with my business so I'm less worried about cancelling work again. (I know none of that should matter, but it's just another stress that doesn't help).

I think that's about it from me for a little while. We have consultants appointment on 24th Jan which will come around pretty quickly...

Lots of love and good wishes for 2011 to all of you xxx


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    Offline OneDayAtATime

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    Bloody hell, back again!

    Where to start? Picked myself up again after the last lot and have had a month of not thinking about the treatment. Then had our follow up consultants appointment at BWH today with the lovely Dr Radjcawa (sp?) and the head embryologist.

    I was completely expecting them to say, response was better 2nd time, all good, let's go again.

    We were both super surprised that we ended up having a very frank discussion saying basically, that the embryos (although we did get one top grade) are just not good enough. They now say that my chances of success per cycle are 25%.

    We went on to discuss fresh surgical sperm retrival on the day of EC and me having an AMH test. Both of these have been strongly recommended. I feel really disappointed as at my last consultation I was adament that both of these things should happen and was reassured that neither were necessary. We've been so pleased with BWH care, and I understand that at that point they didn't know what they know now, but still disappointing and makes me realise that sometimes you HAVE to follow your gut instinct. Not least of all because the additional SSR would have been NHS last time and is now 800 payable by us. HEYHO!

    Anyway, this is all long story short, but I also asked if every clinic would have the same opinion and outlook as they have for me, and they said possibly not and they are very supportive of anyone who wants another opinion. I then asked where they'd suggest and she said, being frank, no where else in the Midlands, we're as good as it gets, if you're willing to go to London that's a different story.

    I asked about ARGC and she said, quite frankly again, they are outstanding and she is spending some time with them this year to learn from them. She also said that the success rates at CARE Manchester are outstanding.

    So. What do we do now? Am considering ARGC. How much does it actually end up costing there I wonder? I think I'm going to ring them tomorrow.

    So confused now! Any words of wisdom gratefully received xxx

    Offline OneDayAtATime

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    Sorry, not sure that I made it clear above, they are v happy to do another cycle at BWH with fresh SSR, I'm just umming and ahhing now as really, I don't know if now's time for a change! x

    Offline OneDayAtATime

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    After lots of soul searching over the last couple of weeks, we've decided to go to ARGC and see Mr Ramsay the urologist as well. I met a lovely lady from here yesterday and hearing her story of ARGC really reinforced my feeling that we've made the right decision. So, a whole new chapter!

    Offline OneDayAtATime

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    Hello! I'm copying below emails I've sent to a lovely lady I've met from FF, just as a bit of an update really..

    Well, we went to see Mr Ramsay on 12th Feb and felt very positive, it was very reassuring to speak to such an expert in his field. What he doesn't know about men's testicles isn't worth knowing..

    He said that ARGC will tell us not to bother with him as they feel they look after the girls so well that they can work wonders with any sperm. He said he would do a full investigative operation again on DH, to retrieve sperm and also to actually get a diagnosis. He said it's very unusual for the surgeon to not be able to say whereabouts the blockage is if there is one. (Although that CAN be the case, it's just very unusual.) He would also make any correction if at all possible whilst he was 'in there'.

    From the BWH notes, he said that they had retrieved sperm from the epididymis and the testicles. He felt that the better sperm had probably been used on the first ICSI and not so good sperm on the second ICSI. (Wouldn't they/shouldn't they have told us that at our review?!)

    He also said that it would be completely reasonable for us not to use him and to go with ARGC alone for the retrieval, as one of the prime reasons for using him would be to get a firm diagnosis. (As well as the potential of possibly getting better sperm/slight chance of having the prob fixed if it were possible.)

    Then.. We saw ARGC on 1st March...

    Nightmare morning, went to get the train from Birmingham International and as we were waiting on the platform, they were all cancelled so we ended up getting back into the car and driving, all fine though and made it in time, phew. (Speeding ticket is probably in the post.)

    Despite warnings, I was still a bit shocked by the clinic. Not that I care, if they are giving me a baby, who needs designer decor?! I did think it had a nice atmosphere though and everyone seemed to be lounging around as if they are used to spending lots of time there.

    The long and short of it all was that I'm going on Tuesday for my monitoring scan and then could start on my period at the end of March. (All being well, EVERYTHING crossed.) Am sadly going to delay it though until the following month though, due to work commitments.

    So, there we have it! We have also decided to use Mr Ramsay and if it's the beginning of May that suits him well too. Finally, have decided to rent somewhere close by to stay and we'll make it an urban holiday! If we stay with friends, I just feel a bit on best behaviour and I think it's important to be comfortable and be able to please ourselves.

    PS. Rod Stewart and Penny Lancaster were at the clinic with their baby whilst we were there! I was starstruck  ;D

    I am very very excited, but also scared as what if we go to ARGC and it still doesn't work? What then?! The emotional side of all of this is so exhausting.

    Another pregnancy announcement this week and 2 babies born to friends has left me a bit fragile. I seem to have spent a lot of time feeling fragile since January. That said, I am so looking forward to being 'on the road' again at ARGC and also to being away from life as normal here whilst it goes on. It will be good to not have to answer any questions etc and just hide for a little while I think.

    Thanks fabulous Fertility Friends, what would I do without all the ARGC boards and other places to lurk and obsess?!


    Offline OneDayAtATime

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    Hello lovely FFs...

    Well, went down to London last Tuesday, such a beautiful day! The sun was shining and Spring felt like it was in the air.

    I went to have my immune bloods taken.. I passed out cold after 9 vials of blood taken (with another 8 to go..!!) DH and the lovely man taking the blood were both so kind. Before we went to the clinic, I'd bought some chocolates at Roccoco on Marylebone High Street. When I eventually came round they told me to eat something sweet if I had anything, so DH, the man taking the blood and I sat there munching gorgeous Roccoco chocolates, how random! Anyway, he took the other 8 and it was all fine. I felt so happy to be alive afterwards! Another thing ticked off and done and it really wasn't that terrible even with the fainting.

    Then we went back to ARGC and I went to have my scan, when we walked into the scan room, lo and behold, the consultant who had been seeing us in Birmingham was sitting there! (She's the one who told me a fresh SSR would make no difference and nor would an AMH test, then did a complete U turn.) She was observing there for a couple of days to learn from them. What an odd coincidence that we happened to be there on that day.. Whilst I was being scanned, I could hear DH 'mentioning' to her about the fact that they have been useless at releasing a copy of our file. Bless him, it's turned up today too, so maybe it did some good!

    Apparently there was one perfect follicle on the scan, so all good there.

    Then we went off for lunch to a little italian place and as we sat chatting and eating, who should walk in but Mr T! He and two other people sat down at the table next to us. Another weird coincidence! I tried not to stare at him like he is God, but really, he is quite God like in our lives! (I am not sure if he had the 2 courses for 10 lunch menu that we had in case anyone's interested...)

    Anyway, had my ovulation surge on day 14 and ovulated on day 15. Have a progesterone test on Tuesday at the GPs and then, that's my monitoring cycle complete! Amazing how simple it's all been really, so much more terrifying when it's unknown.

    Now just the wait for the immune results, it'll be 2 weeks on 22nd March and then the progesterone results so they can decide on my protocol.

    Very excited! Lots of love and baby dust to all of you who post such lovely helpful stuff that keeps me going during the bad moments xxx

    Offline OneDayAtATime

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    Feeling v hormonal today. Must remind myself that's what it is.. Have been a little on edge waiting for my immune results. ARGC have just rung me (bless them - it's 20.15!) to say that they are in and being reviewed and they'll ring me tomorrow with a full run through. I can't decide if this is good or bad? I am on edge now anyway.

    I am so happy that we're going to ARGC and feel 100% that we've made the right choice, but what if... It doesn't work there? If I can't get pregnant at ARGC, it's really not going to happen. Terrifying.

    Offline OneDayAtATime

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    Well, so much to say, yet again! It appears that my worried hunch about immue results was with good reason!

    Long story short, my NK cells were 25 (anything 12+ is high and 18+ is particularly high), probably meaning I will need IVIG treatment - joy! Also, my Cytokine levels were 33 (and they want them to be below 30).

    After racing around to get a Quantiferon test done (I don't have TB, horrah!) and a HepB full profile, then stumping up the 734 for the 2 injections of Humira, I've taken one and am still alive.

    As my levels were only just elevated, I was worried that I may have a surge and never be this low again, but what can I do!? I'm in their hands now and need to just take their advice..

    I'm also taking, Omega 3, Tumeric, Green Tea Extract and Stinging Nettle Extract.. Who knows if it'll help but I hope so.

    Annoyingly this is delaying treatment of course, but as we weren't due to start until April anyway, HOPEFULLY if Humira works first time (every chance it won't everyone keeps reminding me) I would just catch my cycle in time and begin about 19th May. EVERYTHING CROSSED!

    Have taken up running a couple of months ago and this is really helping to keep me vaguely sane.. One day at a time as ever!


    Offline OneDayAtATime

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    Well, 2 Humira injections 2 weeks apart, 3 weeks waiting and feel pretty weirdly exhausted the whole time and... My levels have gone from 33 to 49.8. FFS! (Pardon me.)
    I was so upset on Friday when I found out. A few reasons, I feel some guilt that I've made my levels worse rather than better and what if they never go down as low as they were in the first place? Just more delays and the delay means that I'll probably be cycling when Mr Ramsay is on holiday so will have to make the tough decision to have a frozen sample from DH.
    New guilt that I've been eating chocolate brownies as per normal and have now realised there's lots of talk about diet possibly helping this. SO have arranged a Zita West nutritional consultation, no gluten, no dairy, no potatoes, no sugar, no fun, here we come!
    Still, another bit of bad news and am still alive. What doesn't kill you and all that!

    Offline OneDayAtATime

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    Lovely telephone consultation with the Zita West nutritionist today. She was very pragmatic and even if I don't listen to any of it (which I will!) it was well worth the money (125) to feel that I have spoken to an expert. I wish I had done it earlier to be honest.
    Basically, a change of supplements (very interesting) and no gluten/sugar and a bit of added mad smoothie making. I'm going to try and write it all down here to remind me as much as anything.
    The supplements are:-
    Natures Answer Fish Oil Omega 3 Liquid - 2 dsp a day
    Probiotic - BioCare Forte Plus - 1 capsule a day
    Royal Jelly APMIST - 1 heaped teaspoon a day
    Sterol 117 - 1 capsule
    Vitamin D Natures Plus D3 - 1 a day
    Carry on with tumeric, stop nettle, stop the Zita West Boost. But do have some nettle tea.
    It was great as it felt completely tailored to what was going on with me and the timescale/previous IVF outcomes. So, have ordered all of those today and am kicking of the diet. It's only 4 weeks or so... 3 - 7 days of a bit of a detox and then basically no gluten/sugar/white carbs. I might keep a record here of what I'm eating if no one minds, to keep me on track and countdown to hopefully eventually starting treatment...
    Today was/will be:-
    B - Blueberries/raspberries with GF museli and coconut yogurt
    L - Falafels with huge salad
    S - GF oatcake with walnut butter (all of these odd new foods!)
    D - Prawns, courgette, peppers, broccoli stir fried with garlic, chilli and ginger and roasted spicy butternut squash and sweet potato.
    Detox part will start tomorrow. I wonder how long I can keep this up for..!!
    In other news 734 lighter again and the Humira arrives tomorrow. I noticed that jo_11 has been keeping a note of her ARGC costs. I'm debating doing the same, as I think it's really interesting for people considering moving clinic or for me, it's interesting to see how much more time I'll be spending at their bloomin' credit card machine tapping my pin in yet again!  ::)  Can I face seeing the numbers in black and white yet?!
    Right. COME ON BODY. DO YOUR STUFF!!  ^pray^ ^bigbad^