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Low AMH / High FSH cycle buddies?

178K views 2K replies 77 participants last post by  angelica_wales 
#1 ·
Hello

i wasn't sure whether to post here or in cycle buddies!?

i am particularly keen to make contact with people cycling IVF/ICSI in July/August who have high FSH and low AMH - as would prefer to share with others from this slightly more challenged starting point. Not sure i would like to read about mrs x with her trillion high quality follies and eggs etc.  ::)

I know it only takes one and I have been working on quality  ^pray^ and trying to stay positive - despite the clinic being less than optimistic.

I would love to hear from anyone in this situation who would like to share experiences / journey xx
 
#1,502 ·
Ninney said:
Hi ladies,
I hoped you could let me know your experience /opinions. I've just received letter from the fertility unit after my 2nd unsuccessful IVF. After my recent cycle I had thought they may have suggested the short protocol for the next time but has not suggested any change.
I was down regulating for 5 weeks, injecting for 14 days with 'low ovarian response'. I spoke to the nurse today to arrange an appointment with the consultant to discuss the next step, she said if the cycle was successful they do not suggest changing it. I was happy with 4 mature eggs (both cycles) but they increased the Gonal-F dosage second time round to try to get more eggs, surely if there was another option that might put more eggs in the basket I should try?
Is it one of those things that if you don't ask then they don't suggest it?

Thank you!

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"
Hi Ninny,

I'm happy to share my experience with you. Like you, after my second failed cycle (first and second cycle was long protocol) I asked my clinic about trying the short protocol and although they didn't refuse they said given my AMH & FSH and my previous response (I produced 2 top quality embies) they considered that a 'good' response and didn't want to change anything. Again like you they did increase my Menopur on my second cycle which didn't prove to be beneficial.

I decided to change clinics and my new clinic suggested the short protocol, they didn't believe in downregging when the ovaries were already struggling. My third short cycle IVF resulted in exactly the same result, again 2 embies. So for me there was no difference in response. The bottom line is until you try it you won't know whether your body responds better to the short or long protocol. Everyone will be different, some ladies do better on the long some on the short, unfortunately it's not something you can predict the outcome of.

If you want to try it, then I would talk to your clinic again, but the only word of caution I would offer is that you need to be prepared that a short protocol can go either way, you may have a better response or a worse one. If it were me (and forgive me as I don't know what your AMH/FSH is) and you were happy with 4 embryo's I would stay with the long protocol as it seems to be working. If your AMH was above 3 then I would say by all means try the short as you may have a better response but if it's 2-3 or under then I don't think 4 is a bad response at all.

I wish you the best of luck with your decision. For me, I just needed to know one way or the other and after my third cycle on the short protocol I'm now reverting back to the long protocol.

xxx
 
#1,503 ·
Hi everyone

I am just saying a quick hello and will have a proper read and do personals next time.

Lucky I hope you get some good news! thinking of you and Bumpty did everything get sorted re your protocol or did you decide to change clinic's?

Bonnie, EmW, London, Angelia and everyone else I am so sorry I have not been on this thread enough and a bit behind but will catch up and reply properly next time.

AFM- starting norethisterone next week so December cycle shall be commencing very soon eek! Not really decided 100% on what to do about trying to see whether should try a donor element, we are very scared at the prospect of zero fertilisation for a third time.  Donor sperm has been presented to us an option ( had a session with a  implications counsellor yesterday which was helpful, DH is open minded, as I am to donor egg if we need to but this is a decision that needs more time we feel still) plus our consultant is also saying we may just have been unlucky and can try again just us and or have some donor sperm. We still talking lots and pondering. I am thankfully starting to feel more hopeful that one way or another we will get there.

But enough of my waffles, I just wanted to check in and say hello.
Hi Ninny!

Hope everyone has something nice planned for the weekend.

Take care

Apples x  :) :) ;D ;D :) :)
 
#1,504 ·
Apples - good luck with your cycle and your decision - only one that you can make and not to be rushed. I hope it all goes well for you.

Ninny, I'm sorry I don't really know what to suggest as I am new to all this and in my first cycle. Perhaps it would be a good idea to at least have a couple of consultations with other clinics - that's probably what I would do. I personally have done short protocol (age 30, fsh 16, amh 9) as they said it was better for low ovarian reserve - I got 4 mature eggs, 3 of which fertilised. I am going back this morning hopefully for egg transfer (I havent had an update since day 1 fertilisation) so am pretty nervous as to what to expect. Let us know what you decide xx
 
#1,505 ·
Hi everyone, just thought I'd let you know that my egg transfer went well! Of the three little embryos that I had all had been dividing nicely .. They should be between 6 and 8 cells today and I had:

7 cell, grade 1 quality
7 cell, grade 2 quality
6 cell, grade 3 quality

And so have the first two back on the mothership. So grateful to have got this far xxx
 
#1,506 ·
Apples - sounds like you'll be 2 weeks behind me! I do wish you all the best for this cycle :) is there anyway you can try a mix of all versions in one go and see which works for you? I guess I mean leaving it to fate a little? So try some eggs with donor sperm and some with your hubby's? I guess both donor sperm and eggs are an additional expense? Good luck with whatever you decide.

Ninny - I was on the short protocol and I responded better than I thought I would . I think it's difficult to know until you try it yourself. We all respond differently.... I would be tempted to do what London suggests and go for consultations with other clinics to discuss their approach. I am with crgh and I am very happy with my consultant Dr Ozturk and would recommend him.

London - Ooh just saw your new post! 2 great quality embies onboard!! Hurrah!

Hello Angelica, Bumpety, lucky and everyone else

I start injections for cycle # 2 tomorrow. Same protocol as last time except they have added dexamethasone, a mild steroid. Apples - did you take that last time?
It'll be interesting to see if it affects my response. I have been taking dhea for over 3 months now as well so I wonder if that will have improved my response too. On the other hand I've been pretty lax on the diet the past month so I hope that won't affect quality.... Still we will see what happens I guess!
Xxx
 
#1,507 ·
London, good stuff !!!! are you gonna join the 2ww december board? re flying, drink lots of water and don't stress. the main worry is radiation, dehydration and deep vein thrombosis (so wear the ugly socks they give you !)

i just found this though :

"Myth: Flying Can Increase Your Risk of Complications

Airport body scanners, X-ray machines at security, radiation from flying at high altitudes -- think about all that and pretty soon, a staycation sounds awfully tempting.

But don't worry about the small amounts of radiation that pregnant women might encounter while passing by or through an airport X-ray machine or flying at high altitudes, Chescheir says. "We get exposed to radiation all the time from being on the ground, and certainly flying increases that a bit. But the kind of radiation you're exposed to [during air travel] doesn't have much penetration into the body, so it's unlikely to ever cause fetal exposure at all."

Nor are body scanners dangerous. "It's a very minute amount of radiation, and it's extremely unlikely to cause any sort of fetal effects," Chescheir says. Research evaluated by the FDA, the National Institute for Standards and Technology, and the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory back up her views. But "because there's a completely safe alternative," she says, "I would recommend that [pregnant] women get the pat-down. If they don't want to do that, they should be reassured that going through the body scanner should be fine." "​
 
#1,508 ·
hello to Angelica and Bumpety. 

Apples and Muddypaws, exciting times.  good luck !!!!

Ninny, I got the same quantity on the long and short protocols when i was little younger.  But I read a lot about the antagonist being better for low responders and have stuck to it since.  It's easier on the body and i figure quality over quantity.  I've had better quality generally speaking with a shorter antagonist (different to the short flare protocol).    The last times they upped the menopur for me I responded less and less, actually getting nothing.  So they changed to a synthetic FSH drug only (like puregon, elonva type things) instead of the FSH/LH in menopur and I got 3 good quality embys.  Agreed with Bumpety everyone is different and it sucks that you have to pretty much try and see with the protocols/drugs to see which your body responds better to....    (doesn't help much does it?)

Many low responders do better things with gentler cycles, less stress on the ovaries to produce what is not really there.

happy weekend everyone. 

oh - ps - my line is still there.  so i'm not 'not pregnant' yet.  just not 'yes pregnant' yet.  still early early days (11DPO)

bonnie xx
 
#1,509 ·
Happy Saturday everyone! It's really sunny today - sun always makes me happy.
Ninney - I have asked a couple of consultants and they say in general, you get as many mature eggs as you do antral follicles. WAs your AF count 4? If so then your 2 cycles were successful.  I am not sure there is anything that can make you get more mature eggs than antral follicles... you may get  more follicles during stims but they tend to be empty.
(I have heard that some people get more eggs than AFC but from what I have read the ladies tend to have lots of follicles to begin with) HOpe that helps.

Muddy -  Round two. Ding! Ding! Good luck.

London – So happy you got some good embies. The visualisation must have worked!  Try not to stress on the 2ww. 

Bonibelle - so happy that the line is still there. Glad you updated us. x

Apples – maybe try for a mix of both DS and own sperm? It’s so hard to know what to do. 

Hey Bumpety & Angelica – hope you’re enjoying your day.

AFM – visualisation worked as  I definitely have 1 blastocyst ready to freeze and the second should be frozen today. FX... So relieved.  Although I worry that the 2nd is slow... so am now googling slow blasties. 



 
#1,510 ·
apples - lovely to see you back on here  :)  Best of luck with this next cycle.  I really hope you have some good fertilisation rates this time around and won't need DS.

bonniebelle - I'm gripped to see your updates.  ^pray^ that your line is still a line and gets stronger.  It must be killing you not knowing 100%.

Hi Muddy - best of luck to you with this cycle.  I took Dexamethason on my third cycle although I think I took the shots too late in my cycle for them to have a real affect. 

London - great that you have two great quality embies on board.  Congrats.  Must be a huge relief to you.  Hope your 2ww passes quickly, it is a killer.


Lucky - my lovely any news.  Dying to know how your embie babies are doing...

Emwills - hope you're feeling a little better sweetie.  I know it's hard.  Stay strong.

AFM - well I don't think I'll be going with Reprofit.  Just not impressed at all.  Not only did they suggest an unrealistic protocol (they suggested the same as my last cycle where it was cancelled due to no response) they also missed off my immune treatment completely.  So I don't have a lot of faith.  I really really want to cycle at Gennet but the waiting list is 4 months so I've put my name down and completed the relevant paperwork so we'll see, maybe they might be able to see me earlier.  In the meantime I'm still gearing up to cycling again (cycle no. 5) in January.  Just waiting for AF, I'm not 3 days late.  Not that I'm reading anything in to that, the last couple of months I've been 9 days late and last month I was 4 days late. If it doesn't turn up tomorrow I'll test.

Hi to everyone else.

Ps. I can't remember who mentioned airport scanners, but if you're worried about radiation don't go through them.  When I returned from Athens after my transfer when they called me forward I shook my head and said I could be pregnant they didn't bat an eyelid just patted me down and I was on my way.

^Cuddle^
 
#1,511 ·
Lucky - that's an excellent result from your banking cycle.  So pleased for you  ^hugme^

Our messages just crossed.  Phew you must be relieved.  If you do as well in Dec/Jan then you could have 4 blasts potentially, yippee  ^banana^ ^banana^ ^banana^

Are you still out there? x
 
#1,512 ·
Thanks everyone!

Lucky - what a good result! Let's both try and stick with positive visualisation rather than googling!

Bonnie - thanks for the flying info, very good to know. So thrilled that the line is still there.

Xxx
 
#1,513 ·
Ps bonnie - ah ok yes! Will join the two week wait! X
 
#1,514 ·
Thanks Bumpety. It's such a relief.

Yeah - I want to do a cycle in December as I am concerned that my AFC will drop further. It will probably be at Create as my dates don't quite match with Serum's Christmas period.

Yes London - positive visualisation. Come on slow embie!
 
#1,515 ·
Wow! Thank  you all for your responses.
Why is there never a right anwser?! I seem to be lacking up to date information on my own body! The last text results I have are from January, never thought to ask for them. The one I haves don't have ahm on it. At the time the nurse said my af looked better than fsh would suggest. again no idea what it was on cycle.. FSH was 18.2, 9 mths before it was 6, god knows what it wouldbe now!  So many things I don't know... I'm going to have to ask more questions.  Seeing the consultant on 15 Dec and hope to be better prepared. Lots more research and a list.
I really appreciate you sharing your experiences with me.
Good luck to you ladies waiting for good news...
I'll be back! Xx
 
#1,516 ·
Morning all

Well it's a bfn for me. Devastated doesn't describe how I feel. I really thought it was our time, must have been the evil meds making me feel sick and windy and making me wake twice a night for the loo! At least I can stop them now. Been thinking about what to do next. clinic think it's an embryo quality problem, so I think it's time I give up on my own eggs and give someone else's a go. I can't keep putting us through this heartache for no reason and unfortunately money doesn't grow on trees either, my mil has been amazingly supportive but I don't want to take advantage of her generosity. If there's anything anyone can recommend me asking the clinic at my follow up I'll greatly receive any advice.

Sorry for the ridiculously selfish post, I will catch up later.

Hope everyone is ok, fingers are firmly crossed for you all

Em xx
 
#1,517 ·
Hello lovelies

Em - I'm so sorry sweets. It's so heartbreaking. Sending you hugs and strength to get you through this horrible time. My first thought after my cycle failing was DE. But see how you feel in a couple of weeks when you've had some time. You got a great number of follies this cycle and that's really encouraging. Thinking of you x

Bonnie - congrats on your bfp. Got everything crossed your line is getting stronger and stronger. And Thailand sounds amazing so keep focusing on all these positives!

London - congrats on being pupo - I'm so excited for you! Two embies on board! Sending heaps of positive vibes your way. And SA for NYE - I seem to have stumbled across the low amh/high FSH/jet setters board here... jealous!

Hi Ninney - I can't offer much advice but have my follow up appointment on 8th Dec so will be asking lots of Qs. I've also got some appts booked with other clinics. There isn't a clear answer to what works best I don't think, so good to get opinions. FC for you and your next steps.

Lucky - how are you doing? 2 fertilised is brilliant! what are your next steps?

Bumpety - sorry you're still having trouble with the clinic. I hope you can move forward for your next cycle as planned (or even better - you get a surprise bfp sooner!)

Apples & muddy - excited for you both to be getting your next cycles underway. Hope you're feeling positive and fc for you :)

Angelica - how are you doing lovely? Hope you are well.

Hi to anyone I've missed, hope you're all having a good weekend.

I am a bit up and down - I swing from optimistic to despair in a matter of hours but overall, keeping my chin up. Bit nervous about my follow up spot I think. Work is stressful at the mo too, so looking forward to 2 weeks off over Xmas :) and we are still dog hunting (feels wrong getting a dog at Xmas but we know it's for life!) X

 
#1,518 ·
Em - I'm so sorry xx
 
#1,519 ·
Emwills,

My stomach dropped when I read your post.  I hate seeing another lady go through the heartache of another BFN.  It’s painful, it’s unfair, it’s frustrating, it’s soul destroying, it’s all these things and so much more.  Your belief that ‘it will happen’ starts to waiver and you’re left flipping from moments of ‘it will work, it has to’ to ‘I can’t take much more of this, let’s just move on’.

I just wanted to say, I understand, we collectively understand.  The more failed cycles you have the harder that hill is to climb.  I remember in my first cycle how blissfully ignorant I was thinking that I might be on of the ‘lucky’ ones who conceive first try.

Take some time my lovely.  Like you, I too can’t face anymore BFN’s.  Life has been on hold too long.  From one day to the next I flip from lets try OE again to ‘I can’t do this, let’s move to DE’.  I think only you know when you’re ready to move forward with DE without having regrets that you didn’t try long or hard enough.  I have absolutely no doubt if you do move forward with DE that you’ll forget your journey to motherhood even started with a lovely DE, reminders will only be fleeting.  I look at it this way at least your DE baby will have one parties DNA and well lets be honest you’ll be creating the rest.  The baby will have your blood running through its veins, your body will decide which characteristics (genes) your baby will display, you will grow your baby, it’s flesh and bones so to speak that will all be YOU! I mean 99.9% of genes are identical for every person on earth.  DNA does not produce life, your womb does that.  I like to think of it this way when your receive your donor egg, some kind lady is giving you a cell, one single cell that’s it, the rest is your creation.

I hope over the coming weeks you can make some progress moving forward.  Right now be kind to each other, take care of your needs whatever they are at any given moment and grieve.  I’m sure in a few weeks you’ll feel ready to make some plans and you’ll know what that is then.  Try not to think too hard about the way forward right now, you need time to heal sweetie.

Best of luck xxx
 
#1,520 ·
Sorry..... forgot to say.  A big fat GOOD MORNING everyone  :)
 
#1,521 ·
Not wishing to bring anyone down so to speak, I just wanted to say to all the ladies who got their BFN's recently that I found it really helpful writing down how I was feeling.  After my last failed cycle I wrote this poem, I'm no writer but it helped.  Just thought it might help some of you ladies too...  ^hugme^

Another year over, another year done

When will I turn in to the thing I’m to become

Still waiting…
Still waiting…

No longer a child, that life is over

No more fairy tale girlish dreams and idealisms of how things should be

Still waiting…
Still waiting...

Waiting for my journey to begin

A life of colour, and the occasional sin, but most of all, a warm baby to hold in my aching limbs

Still waiting…

Days are dark right now

No joy to be found

I shy away from contact with the outside world, locked inside with my personal hell

Infertility seems to have become my new best friend although I count the days until this relationship will end

A relationship filled with emptiness and despair, panic and failure, in equal measures

Praying to find a cure or a miracle somehow, somewhere

Still waiting…
Still waiting…

As I spend hours researching my new best friend, my body musters up what courage and optimism it can spare

But with each passing cycle, it becomes harder and harder to mend and repair.

Repair my body, my mind, and my will

For there is no alternative, but to keep walking up this hostile hill

Still waiting…
 
#1,522 ·
Bumpety great poem, totally get where you are.  I'm struggling like mad to find the optimism to try again but can't bear the idea of not having a child either.  It's been such a knock back this last failed cycle.

Thanks for sharing.

Em so sorry Hun, nothing anyone says can change the way your feeling right now but take some time to grieve and hopefully you will find a way forward.

Cordelia xx
 
#1,523 ·
That's a beautiful articulation of how I inagine many of us are feeling, Bumpety x
 
#1,524 ·
Bumpety - thanks for sharing this with us. It's really moving.

Em - So sorry this has happened. I hope you take the time to heal. Right now you are very emotional. You will know when the right time is for you to do DE. Don't let any clinic rush you into it. But I understand if money's an issue. And I agree with everything Bumpety has said.

Ninney - Just like to add, I was more successful with a short protocol. With the long, I was on 450 gonal F which fried all my eggs - only got 1 mature out of 7.  They said it was an egg problem but then 6 months later, I did the short with lower drugs and got 5 mature out of 8 eggs.
 
#1,525 ·
oh Em, I'm so sorry .  AF ?    ^hugme^ ^hugme^ ^hugme^

bumpety, a lovely piece of writing.  thank you for sharing .

love to everyone.
bonniexxx
 
#1,526 ·
Thank you all for your kind words today, it's been a tough day but my DH has got me through it, he's amazing. This forum is also a crutch I could not do without during this process.

Bumpety that is such a lovely poem and sums up this journey perfectly, thank you for sharing it.

Hope everyone is ok

Em xx
 
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