* Author Topic: Immune issues - start here guide to this section!  (Read 141852 times)

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Offline mamochka

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Immune issues - start here guide to this section!
« Reply #150 on: 1/09/14, 13:51 »
hey Altai - i hope its a missing link for you! M

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    Offline Travelinsal

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    Immune issues - start here guide to this section!
    « Reply #151 on: 3/09/14, 22:03 »
    Hi agate.  Looks like for raised Cykotine ratios, might need Humira. I am doing everything else to lower inflammation like changing my diet and taking loads of fish oil.

     The reproductive immunologist here in Sydney is recommending LIT with my partners blood for low LAD levels, but from reading your FAQ I see that it treats situations where we are using my eggs and partners sperm.  If I were to use donor sperm, I would need to use the donor's blood for the LIT.  What I don't read in the FAQ is what is required if I am using Donor Eggs and my partners sperm.....wonder if I need the donor,s blood AND my partners blood for the LIT......is this something you have come across in your research?

    Thanks again for your help....

    Offline agate

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    « Reply #152 on: 3/09/14, 22:23 »
    if you are using DE/OS, then the DE gives you another shuffle of the DQas but some docs would still say that you should still do partner LIT (and/or LIT from the DE donor)

    Offline pookiepoo

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    « Reply #153 on: 10/09/14, 11:28 »
    Hi agate,

    I'm trying to figure out immune treatment timings and when is a good time to start FET after that.

    I'm supposed start Humira in Sep and retest in Oct....If I can't do my FET before Christmas, is it better I wait to take Humira later? Also, I know Humira cannot be taken in pregnancy, but can it coincide with down-reg for for FET?

    Another question is about hidden c; I've done the test and while the bad C was negative, the DNA (the group of Cs) came back positive. So DH and I are taking antibiotics now. Retest will be with my Nov AF. So wonder; 1) do I have to wait for those results for FET? and 2) if comes back positive what is usually prescribed?

    Thank you!

    Pani x

    Offline agate

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    « Reply #154 on: 10/09/14, 12:20 »
    you would usually aim to do your fet within 2-5 weeks of your 2nd humira shot.

    for the C - it depends what your doc does, but I GUESS if its still positive he puts you on a different course of antibs and then gets you to retest.

    Offline pookiepoo

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    « Reply #155 on: 10/09/14, 13:23 »
    Thanks agate. I've been told i need to do a re-test 7-10 days post 2nd shot of humira. So once the number is down I can down-regulate. If not, I will need a 2nd course.

    Re hidden c - if I'm put on a diff. antibiotics - can it be take during down-regulate/FET?


    Offline agate

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    « Reply #156 on: 10/09/14, 16:22 »
    pani: I would GUESS so

    Offline stephom

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    « Reply #157 on: 11/09/14, 18:50 »
    Hi agate

    I need some advice please:

    My first immune tests results were:

    tnfa:il10 - 45.2      (13.2 - 30.6)    -- HIGH
    IFN-G:IL0 - 19.1    (5.8 - 20.5)

    HISTONE ABS     NEGATIVE
    CARDIOLIPIN IgG      2.9  ( 0-17)
    Cardiolipin IgM          4.3   (0-15)

    NK ASSAY
    50:1                     15.4    (10-40)%
    25:1                     11.4    (5-30) %
    12.5:1                    7.3    (3-20) %

    IgG 12.5   50:1      13.2%
    IgG 12.5   25:1      5.8%
    IgG 6.25   50:1      11.4%
    IgG 6.25   25:1      8.8%

    CD 3                           79.6     (60-85)%
    CD 19                         17.3      (2-12) %    ---HIGH
    CD 56                          4.8        (2-12) %
    CD19+CD5 CELLS         6.4        (5-10)%
     
    I declined humira beacuse of the timing and I wasnt confident that it would work. As a result I was given intralipids instead.

    Two weeks after the intralipid infusion, the cytokines were rested but not the nk cells. The tnf:il10 went down to 42.5.

    I was then asked to take another intralipid infusion and this time the nk cells were rested after 2 weeks less two days and the result was:

    NK ASSAY

    50:1                   22.1    (10-40) %
    25:1                   12.5     (5-30)%
    12.5:1                 7.6      (3-20) %

    IVIG 12.5   mg/ml,  50:1      11.9%
    IVIG 12.5   mg/ml,  25:1      1.4%
    IVIG 6.25   mg/ml,  50:1      19.3%
    IVIG 6.25   mg/ml,  25:1      17.8%

    CD 3                           76.1     (60-85)%
    CD 19                         18.5      (2-12) %    ---HIGHER THAN FIRST TEST
    CD 56                          5.7        (2-12) %    ---HIGHER THAN FIRST TEST
    CD19+CD5 CELLS         10.7        (5-10)% ---  MUCH HIGHER THAN FIRST TEST

    tnfa:il10   (CD3 +CD4+)   41.3 (13.2 - 30.6)    -- HIGH  ---LOWER THAN FIRST TEST
    IFN-G:IL0 (CD3 +CD4+) - 14.4    (5.8 - 20.5)  ---LOWER THAN FIRST TEST

    I am confused because the intralipids seems to lower the cytokines but increase the nk cells. I thought they were meant to move in the same direction.

    Why i am a bit skeptical about these tests is that they depend on how you are at that moment. Before I took the retest i just got back from a disneyland weekend with my 10 yr old daughter and 12 year old niece, it was an extremely active weekend, rollercoasters, chocolate and fast food so I am not sure if that had an effect on the results...

    I was then told that because I had already commenced a cycle I should have IVIG because my tnf was still high which i did on stim day 8. I really didnt want to have  it but I succumbed because i want to give the embryo the best chance of implanting.

    I have just had EC and due for ET in a couple of days.

    I thought IVIG was used to treat CD 56? which in my case in normal. This is all so confusing.

    I will be leaving the UK before my OTD as I have been off work for 3 months now and may not have access to doing the immune retests or getting IVIG to buy abroad.

    Having had 2 natural pregnancies and my DH has everything wrong with his sperm, one mind tells me that if i have a healthy embryo implanted it will survive and i may not really be bothered by these immune issues.  All my hormone levels are OK, I have regular periods, I ovulate but the only problem I have is that i am very overweight which i am controlling by eating very healthy. I am also take omega 3 fish oils, i just finished reserveratol (which i decided not to continue), selenium, Vit B6, vit B12, co enzyme q10, vit D, probiotics and pregnacare.

    All this has left me really concerned so I need some advise on what to do. I would also like you to explain the CD movements in my two test results.

    Look forward to your reply..

    Offline agate

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    « Reply #158 on: 11/09/14, 19:33 »
    basically, the tnfa just didn't change - it was pretty high, stayed pretty high and the NKa went up a bit.  It looks like your body doesn't respond much to ILS.  they wanted to use humira but you didn;t so they are trying ivig instead.  it has a reasonable chance of working.  sometimes it works for women who don't respond to ils.

    if the cycle isn't successful, you might want to go back to basics and try to sort out what is causing the high tnfa before you try again..... but argc will just suggest humira (and if that doesn't work ivig)... cos that's how they treat.

    being overweight won't help tnfa, but its possible you have other stuff at play as well e.g. joints, bowel issues, infection, autoimmunes... potentially all of those causes can be treated in their own right to get your tnfa down (hopefully)

    Offline Kristina2012

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    « Reply #159 on: 11/09/14, 23:02 »
    hello Agate, please could you have a look at my results and tell me what drugs i would need to take? after some discussion with fga ladies, im gonna need Lit due to my negative lad but dont know how to interpret the other results.
    Many thanks. 

    NK Cells
    50:1                                      11.5
    25:1                                      8.1
    12.5:1                                    6
    IVIG 12.5 mg/ml                     9.1
    IVIG 12.5 mg/ml25:1               5.6
    Intralipid 1.5 mg/ml 50:1          11.2
    Intralipid 1.5 mg/ml 25:1          7.9
    %CD3                                      90.3
    %CD19                                    6.9
    %CD56                                     2.2
    %CD19+cells,CD5+                  11.7

    TH1/TH2 Cytokine
    TNF-a:IL ~10 (CD3+CD4+)        28.4
    IFN-g:IL ~10 (CD3+CD4+)        14.6

    KIR Genotyping

    INHIBITORY:
    2DL1
    2DL2*001/2/3/5
    2DL3
    2DL4
    2DL5
    3DL1
    3DL2
    3DL3

    ACTIVATING
    2DS1
    2DS2
    2DS4
    2DS4*full length
    Ex.5
    2DS5
    3DS1


    LAD
    Flowcytometry           NEGATIVE
    [T-Cells] IgM+             6.5
    [T-Cells] IgG+             1.1
    [B-Cells] IgM+              1
    [B-Cells] IgG+               1

    These tests were done 4 weeks after my MC and 3 weeks after i had stopped steroids.

    Thanks so much Agate! x