* Author Topic: Natural, mini, mild (etc) IVF chat thread  (Read 70000 times)

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Offline Briss

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Natural, mini, mild (etc) IVF chat thread
« Reply #20 on: 15/01/15, 15:11 »
Altai, I am very curious about Japanese IVF what is it? also why would you take tamixofen? My DH was taking it to improve his FSH/Testosterone levels which it did, however it did not result in sperm improvement.

afm, My today's bloods showed that progesterone levels have increased suggestive of ovulation and since my temp has been up I reconciled to the fact that it's all over this cycle. I was not even sure I was going for a scan seemed like a waste of money. The scan actually made it all even more confusing than before. On one hand it showed that one of the follicles on the left side had irregular shape and signs of haemorrhage suggestive of rapture/ovulation. however, at the same time my estrogen levels have also increased and follicles have actually grown since Tuesday (the largest were 12.9/10.3/9.4 compared to 7.5/6.4/5.1 on Tuesday)!! How is this even possible to have both estrogen and progesterone increasing?? progesterone is supposed to stop follicles from developing and yet they are growing.  I do not even know what to think anymore

waiting for the Munich clinic to tell me if we can still do natural IVF this cycle or not. probably not cos progesterone levels are just too high but then what do I know

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    Offline Altai

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    « Reply #21 on: 15/01/15, 18:38 »
    Briss- so called Japanese ivf is mini stim ivf, first pioneered by Kato clinic in Japan. There have been different modifications/developments to the protocol since then.
    Initially started with clomiphene citrate/femara  or combo.
    Here is one link. I also put more links in another thread with clomid.
    http://www.infertilitysolutions.com/teramoto.html

    I don't know why the dr suggested tamixofen instead but it is similar drug to clomid. Though I've done ok with femara getting 2 embryos. With full stimm (300u) I usually get 3 on D3, too.
    So not a big difference.

    Sorry, things are so confusing with you. I don't know abt progesterone and not sure why you already testing it. In all my previous clinics I tested @ trigger shot day and ET.

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    Offline Briss

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    « Reply #22 on: 16/01/15, 11:53 »
    Altai, thank you! That's really helpful

    afm, got my verdict today no surprises: "progesterone indicates ovulation already happened so repeat scan/bloods on day 7 of your next cycle". the doc did not answer any of my questions as to why and what's happening with estrogen and follicle growth. I will be sending my forms and documents to Gennet next week to start the process with them as their waiting list is quite long but I am still giving Munich a chance. after all they were really spot on saying from the outset that ovulation took place. even though at the time it seemed ridiculous to me. honestly day 8 ovulation?? I am not even sure this was proper ovulation, the follicle cant just disappear, in case of ovulation it collapses but it's still there and they can usually see it changes it's colour and form. on day 8 there was no such follicle or maybe they just did not see it cos they were not looking for it. The sonographers are pretty useless I must say, they keep thinking my cyst is a dominant follicle pretty much every time

    I also contacted another clinic in Munich but they have not responded yet.


    Offline Altai

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    « Reply #23 on: 16/01/15, 21:26 »
    Briss- sorry this cycle didn't work out  as expected.  I think the follicle can disappear. I had the same on femara and read that some women had it on clomid, too.
    Do you have your scans in fertility clinic?
    scanning skills vary, so perhaps the best option would be to have scan in fertility clinic. Especially when doing natural/mini/mild because of high cancellation rate or when closer to EC.

    I found this study on chromosomal abnormality of embryos resulting from mild and conventional ivf. But their patients were <38, bmi 19-19 , good sperm = good prognosis patients. Resulting embryos were PGS-ed for 10 chromosomes.
    They concluded that proportion of chromosomally  normal embryos is higher  with mini ivf.

    But mini ivf cancellation rate was high, too in their study, so perhaps a bit biased towards natural selection of strongest or 'bestest' embryos.

    http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/4/980.full.pdf

    Still sounds  very encouraging.

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    Offline Banjo55

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    « Reply #24 on: 20/01/15, 22:47 »
    Hi Ladies

    I have a question.  I've never had IVF before and I'm researching clinics abroad because of the cost. Who decides whether you should have full or natural ivf, would it be the clinic or do I have to state which option I want at the outset?

    To be honest I'm nervous about the prospect of my cycle being messed around by loads of drugs but obviously I want the best outcome as I don't think we'll be able to afford more than 2 cycles.

    Decisions, decisions.

    Offline Briss

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    « Reply #25 on: 20/01/15, 23:53 »
    Banjo, I think the important thing is to find a clinic you can trust. I'd approach several clinics and explain your history and see what they offer: stims, mild stims or natural. tbh it's unlikely anyone will offer natural because the success rates are too low so it's most likely b/w stims and low stims/mini IVF. until you try it's really hard to say which is going to work best for you. when i started IVF I knew I was going to be a poor responder because of my high FSH levels and I was convinced low stims are going to work for me. they almost did but not quite. then I thought I really need to try full on stims but it was a disaster so we are now back to natural. all clinics I approach are trying to persuade me to do at least mild stims but I have been there before and know that it's most likely not going to work so I usually tell them what i want (but that's because I have already tried many things).

    Offline Banjo55

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    « Reply #26 on: 21/01/15, 19:55 »
    Thanks Briss.  One of the clinics I contacted has come back and said it would depend on the outcome of the consultation and various tests.

    There's so much to take in I've found it a bit overwhelming. My brain has been in overload.


    Offline KRichmond

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    « Reply #27 on: 21/01/15, 21:18 »
    Hi there. I have also just started low dose ivf with Icsi at create. I had two previously unsuccessful rounds with high dosage. Got to et but bfns both times. Am hoping this time they will stick. Have got two at 14 and one at 10 so really hoping they will have a growth spurt. Am doing 3 cycled of ec and then one et. Would live to know how you all get on.

    Offline K8O

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    « Reply #28 on: 21/01/15, 21:39 »
    Hi everyone

    Hope you don't mind me posting!  I've recently been to Serum and it has been suggested that we try a mild IVF with femera because I overstimulate with the normal approach.  Just wondering if anyone else has done this in a similar situation?  I feel happier with the approach rather than menopur and then being really ill but just wondered if anyone else had followed the same path so to speak.  I was told in the UK I had PCO but Serum told me I don't I'm just very fertile!

    Kxx

    Offline Briss

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    « Reply #29 on: 21/01/15, 21:53 »
    K8O. unfortunately I do not have any experience with Femara or chlomid, I only used menopur and Gonal F and neither worked for me.

    Can I ask you about your DH's sperm, it says in your signature that it improved after some protocol? can you please elaborate what it was that made a difference? we have tried so many things but so far nothing made any difference to his SA. it's either bad or terribly bad :(

    afm, just waiting for AF and hoping to do a natural IVF again.