* Author Topic: Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6  (Read 115081 times)

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Offline Helenbeau

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Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
« Reply #100 on: 3/02/18, 22:54 »
Katkat, not sure about the estrogen. I know I took it with my FET but wasnít prescribed it for fresh.

London ladies....where should I go for a scan to look at my lining? Iíve been going to city fertility for scans previously but wondered if thereís somewhere else, cheaper perhaps or with good doctors/scanners and easy to book last minute?

Also, what day should I have a scan to assess my lining for potential transfer this month? Today is day 8 of my cycle, I usually get a positive opk around 12-13. I think they need to check for when I ovulate too (if I ovulate) as I canít have a FET if I havenít ovulated. I just donít want to be scanned to early as I donít want to pay twice. Iím thinking day 12?

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    Offline AdelineX

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #101 on: 3/02/18, 23:01 »
    Ladies, I've been MIA, as I was feeling miserable after yesterday's RE appointment, but I feel I shouldn't lose contact with your news.

    Ross: I'm so sorry, I was hoping for good news, but you really never know how things end up with IVF, one day you have eggs, fertilisation, embryos, high hopes, etc , only to see it all go away. Please don't lose hope, if you can, try again in 2-3 months. You had great response to the letrozole protocol at Serum, perhaps you could try mild IVF again, as it seems to suit you. Serum seems dedicated to helping poor responders, I think you still have a good chance with them.

    Briss: indeed fertilisation can be delayed, but the longer it takes for cells to divide, the smaller the chances the embryo is viable. It is a cruel twist of events, and I'm so sorry you had to go through it. Egg maturity is a positive aspect, it is good to keep that in mind. I perfectly feel you regarding exhaustion, it is so so unbelievably painful and terrible. I know you probably don't want to hear cliches, but you have admirable strength. Munich is incredibly good, they seem hands on and trustworthy, I think they are completely involved in helping you the best they can. In other words, you make superhuman efforts for this to succeed. It would be absurd if this long battle didn't have a happy ending. I certainly hope it does! 

    Katkat: sending you big hugs, DE is very very difficult indeed. One must be really sure that is the right choice before moving on, it is a life-altering decision that most of us never imagined having to contemplate. I'm glad to see you're holding up so nicely, attitude is not all but it surely makes a difference.

    Babyhopeful: if free testosterone in within range, you can try DHEA. Not all REs agree with it, some give it to patients without any prior blood tests, and I think that is not ok. Also, you must test free T after 1 month of DHEA. I'm truly sorry for your BFN...it's so hard and unfair.

    Klik: keeping fingers crossed for a nice hysteroscopy result !

    MA661: Bemfola is a type of recombinant FSH that is not as expensive as Gonal F, but has good results, and I read one study that showed no difference in outcome (eggs, maturity, fertilisation rate, implantation) after stimulations with Gonal F and others with Bemfola. Many clinics use it due to friendlier costs and similar results.  Thyroid issues (hypo or hyper) either lower TSH levels or drive them up. 2.7 is not ok, 1-2 is ok for implantation. I have autoimmune thyroid issues, so my TSH is all over the place. But I will definitely check it in the unlikely case I get to do an embryotransfer.  Also, there are studies that show a detrimental effect of cysts on IVF stimulation. I have cysts all the time, but I won't cycle if they don't go away until I am due to start stimulation. My chances are "theoretical" anyway (as one very wise and tactful doctor once said to me). ICSI greatly improves fertilisation rates.

    LXP: I'm rooting for you and your embryos, I hope they grow beautifully this weekend! Keeping everything crossed for great news!

    Sunshine: waiting out is the wise choice sometimes. Stimulation is expensive and unpredictable, why not start with the best chances? Good luck, I hope spring brings more follicles !

    Laura: welcome! Many people swear by Coq10 (or its better version, ubiquinol). You might want to look into that as well.

    Mac78: openly talking about options is the best thing a couple can do, given the circumstances. I know oh so well how you feel. We keep having the same conversation over and over again. DH is adamantly against DE, he said he can live without children, so that is it, if we don't succeed with OE. I was really hurt to hear him say it out loud. I, on the other hand, don't want to move on without children. It is indeed a process, I hope he changes his mind (he had a painful surgical sperm retrieval, so he is committed). If he doesn't, I'm afraid that is it for us. I want a family with kids, it's not negotiable.

    Helen: lining check is most accurate a few days after ovulation, when natural implantation usually occurs.

    I hope I didn't forget anyone, but if I did...apologies and my warmest thoughts!

    AFM: I'm cynically wondering what comes next, after the bitter conversation I had with DH about giving up TTC completely if OE fails. Yesterday I went to my local RE for a day 16 ultrasound, I had a 17 mm follicle on my left ovary (soon to become a cyst, as I should have ovulated by then if it were to happen...) and 2 more follicles on my left ovary (smaller ones). That is what my Sahara desert ovaries look like. My next cycle is uncertain, as I probably didn't ovulate this month and I'm sure I'll have a cyst (again). I was supposed to start estrogen priming on day 19 for 7 days, and after that check antrals and decide if we go for microdose flare or estrogen priming with antagonist. I'm still confused if the estrogen will help eliminate the cyst. Normally, it might. I asked the dr. if I could add an antagonist from day 21 until AF, she reluctantly agreed. Now I don't know what I should do. Would the antagonist suppress my lethargic ovaries too much? Should I risk taking it in the hope I get rid of that cyst? Any ideas, ladies? Thank you!
    I immediately reached out to my Reprofit dr. for advice about how to proceed, but I got an automatic reply she is out of office until February 12th. I'm so tired of this clinic and their lack of care.


     



    Offline katkat2014

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #102 on: 4/02/18, 09:33 »
    Hey Helen, I can tell you what I had to do on my recent natural FET: I tested for peak on my opk (I also did a blood test of LH and estrogen, both were high and confirmes I would ovulate within 24 hours).and then went in for a scan 2 days after peak to confirm that I had ovulated. On this day I started progesterone. The much easier way however would be: do a scan on day 11 as well as blood test LH and estrogen. Give yourself a trigger shot whenever the follicle is say 18-20mm (in my case that is) and LH is not too high yet. Then you know for sure that you will ovulate 36 hours later and can safely say it is time for you to start progesterone that day and plan FET for your day 2,3 or 5 accordingly

    Annakay I am really sorry to hear about your disagreement with your DH. It is very painful, I know that as my DP could also imagine just staying a family of two while it's me that doesn't want to give up on a child. But i think it is a process. While your DH may be totally against it now, with time he may consider DE or DS. Mine still is against it but I know he's coming round a tiny bit to the idea of DE or DS or EA - mainly as he doesn't want to lose me, also because he's tired of all this and it does really affect him too to get disappointment after disappointment. But I think it's really difficult to decide about any of this on your own as in essence that's what it is - we have to convince our other half about it while we're not 100% sure ourselves. In any case, you're doing the right thing in focusing on your egg collections for now. I just wanted to say you're not alone with your thoughts and situation and I do hope it works out for you. I can't help you with your question though I'm afraid as I don't have any experience of cysts other than they go away with my period usually. Could.you email your coordinator to say your Dr is on leave and if she could please ask Dr Pavel for assistance in the meantime as he was recommended to you by a friend?

    Offline tily

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #103 on: 4/02/18, 09:39 »
    Hi ladies,

    Just quickly as Iíve been working long hours all week and guests with me this weekend but have been scanning the updates.

    So sorry about the recent BFNs. This is such a difficult journey to keep perservering with. Things can change so quickly on this crazy rollercoaster from all the hope of being pupo and praying for the best to the devastation of being back to square one and replanning with further financial, emotional and time investment.

    Klik - just to say you absolutely donít owe my an apology. I honestly didnít even absorb what you thought you might have been suggesting in an earlier post. And it would be lovely to bring your friend on Saturday night who also has DOR. The more the merrier!

    Also, just to say that there might be one or two others from this thread that havenít been as active recently... but all ladies in similar situations.

    Iíll confirm when Iíve the restaurant booked and the numbers.

    Have a nice Sunday all...Xx

    Offline LauraC81

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    « Reply #104 on: 4/02/18, 12:22 »
    Helenbeau: NHS scanned my lining 2 weeks after taking downreg then every 2nd day from then on until they decided I was ready for EC, not sure if that helps?

    Annakay: Thank you for the advice, I'll look into it.  I'm so sorry to hear about the conversation with your DH.  I can imagine how painful that would be.  I would be the same in your position as I feel so strongly I was meant to be a mum in some way and if my DH wasn't uo for supporting that I think I'd rather go it alone than not keep trying but it would be a very hard decision!  Unfortunately I too am unable to offer advice re cysts as haven't experienced them for myself.

    Everyone else: I hope you all have a lovely sunny Sunday and stay strong through all the heartache & hope that this journey brings...you are all an inspiration, I am early on in my journey but reading your stories helps me know I am not alone in my worries and spurs me on!  Thank you x

    Offline Babyhopeful

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #105 on: 5/02/18, 09:16 »
    Annakay - thank you for the advice about the DHEA. I have started using it, but will definitely ask for a testosterone test next week just to make sure Iím not creating any problems.

    Iíve had cysts. One went away on itís own and for the other I took microgynon for a month and this seemed to clear it prior to an IVF cycle.

    LXP - Iíve had 2 full IVF cycles. 1 cancelled IUI and 1 IVF converted to IUI. Lots of luck for today.

    LauraC81 - Welcome and good luck with your next cycle.

    Afm - AF has arrived and I have been feeling quite washed out and uncomfortable. I always find AF is worse after my failed cycles. Iíve had the sad task of telling my family and in-laws it didnít work this time. I feel like such a let down. For some reason they all had high hopes it would work this time. Iíve tried to explain that statistically we only have around a 20% to 25% chance per go and we are in this for the long haul, but they still seem very negative about it all as if itís the end of the road. I think really they should be trying to cheer me up, not the other way around!

    I have started DHEA, whether this is a good thing or not I donít know as yet, but Iím up for giving anything a shot at this stage. It has only been 3 days and I donít seem to have any side effects so far. Iíve decided that weíre going to give ttc naturally the best go we can in between cycles. Iím going to get another OPK this week and Iím planning to use soft cups around ovulation after BD. Also I might ask the specialist for some progesterone support, which I have had prescribed for me in the past. I seem to come up with a new supplement or idea after each failure so DH just goes along with it now. I think he just knows itís my way of gaining some control over this frustrating situation.

    Offline Sunshine122

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #106 on: 5/02/18, 10:33 »
    Anna, so sorry to hear about your disagreement with DH, its such a tough decision but he may change his mind once he has more time to think things through.
    Ross, was the bleeding on your ET day leftover from EC? on my first few cycles I always had bleeding for a few days after EC so when I went for ET I was scanned first and as the bleeding wasnt coming from uterus and lining was still good it was ok to do the transfer.
    Babyhopeful, sorry youíre finding it hard dealing with family, thats half the reason we havenít told anyone to avoid any added pressure. Goodluck with your ttc naturally.

    So this month we are ttc naturally while hopefully my ovaries heal ready for another mild cycle next month, I was thinking of using cyclogest after ovulation but as Iím so prone to cysts, will progesterone have any affect on if Iím more likely to get one or not? And also do you think using the cyclogest will have any affect at all in terms of my ovaries recovering? Or do you think Iíll be better to have a totally natural cycle? I really donít want to sit out another cycle if they havenít bounced back or get a cyst but I also donít want to take the pill as its so suppressive and Iím already worried about my AFC decreasing - in sept and all previous months its been around 9/10, but in jan after a month on pill it was only 6, this month after EC a week prior its only 4. I really hope it bounces back. Last question, what day to start cyclogest? I donít have that many left, is it ok to start around 5dpo or does it need to be sooner? Thanks ladies.

    Oh and just one last thing, last night I had a dream I was heavily pregnant just to make me feel a little worse...

    Offline Helenbeau

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #107 on: 5/02/18, 13:48 »
    Sorry just a quick one...will write properly later
    Where should I go for a scan in london to check liking and dominant follicle?
    Thanks xxx

    Offline katkat2014

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    « Reply #108 on: 5/02/18, 16:00 »
    Quick one for Helen - try ultrasound direct, costs £100 per scan

    Offline klik

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #109 on: 5/02/18, 16:07 »
    Briss: I'm very sorry about your BFN... There is always hope, even for the longest of longshots... and it hurts when it's dashed. It does seem like you are bouncing back, at least to some extent--you got maturity and fertilisation, which is better than you've had in a while... I really hope that between your diligence and your body just bouncing back, you will get a good embryo soon... I have no idea what to think re. sperm vs egg--as you know the egg is a lot more complex and therefore more things can go wrong with it, but who ever really knows?!

    ross: I'm so sorry about your BFN... It really just bites... How much of what kind of progesterone are you on again? For me, with Crinone AF shows up 2 days after I stop, but with intramusculars it takes more like 5 days... Also, it's different for every woman...

    Mac: it's certainly not your obligation to carry another woman's genetic material, so you should not feel guilty about depriving your husband of anything. What I can say is, I know one woman who's gone down the DE path, and I have to say, her pregnancy was a joy to behold. She was sooooo happy... and now her twins have been born, and she couldn't be happier. Pregnancy and birth are intense, life-altering experiences... For some women, they are more important than the genetic material. For other women, looking at the baby and seeing little bits of yourself is way more important. Some women absolutely hate pregnancy, though they love their babies once they're born. So you just have to give yourself time to think through all the possibilities, in detail... Like, how does it feel to know that eating your favourite food would be feeding the DE foetus, and that you would experience it moving around in response? Weird? Wonderful? Offputting? Downright unpleasant? Whatever your reaction is, it's not wrong. You have 100% of a right to feel that way. It's not your fault that you have DOR, and it doesn't mean you owe anything to anybody. If anything, the world owes you a chance to get pregnant and have a baby as a result of simply having sex. Don't feel guilty! Just do what's right for you...

    Babyhopeful: I'm sorry AF is so uncomfortable... Oh, I HATE the scrutiny--I try not to tell anybody anything (apart from my therapist), as nobody bloody gets it except for other DOR women who've also been trying for a long time. Odd indeed re. your mid-luteal phase bleeding... I absolutely think you should have some progesterone support prescribed for your natural attempts... Good luck!

    LXP: you've probably heard by now, and I hope it's good news! Looking forward to cheering your own in your hopefully soon-to-be PUPOness!

    Laura: ubiquinol is the main thing I, too, would add to your regimen. I was taking 200/day, but I know some women here take 300 or more! The other thing I wonder is how high your stims are. If you produced three embryos, you might benefit from mild IVF if you're not doing that already--loads of stims sometimes (not always!) seem to fry eggs... Are you doing back-to-back?

    Helen: I'm sorry--I don't know where to get a scan on demand--I've never done that, myself... That said, given your history I might have my lining checked on CD 11. Katkat's plan is good for controlling your ovulation... if you wanted to do a fully natural transfer, though, and avoid the trigger, you'd have to do OPKs til you get your surge and then do one or two more scans after that to confirm ovulation has occurred. I would not use those post-ovulation scans as a lining check, though, as progesterone tends to compress the lining and you might get an unnecessary scare out of it.

    Sunshine: enjoy your break and good luck on your natural attempt! Yeah, if you're not happy with your AFC you probably shouldn't go on the pill. I think you don't have endo, right? Why don't you do oestrogen priming to avoid a new cyst forming? It totally doesn't prevent you from trying naturally. As for cyclogest, it's recommended that you start it the day after ovulation, or max 2dpo. Ask your clinic to prescribe more--they really should support natural attempts with progesterone!

    katkat: thanks for welcoming my friend! Re. oestrogen after transfer, some women (especially DOR women) don't make enough oestrogen for proper embryo development, so it sometimes helps to supplement with oestrogen as well as progesterone. I'd say just do it, really, but most clinics don't prescribe it as it's either a rare problem or an underestimated one... Re. endometrial receptivity, as I understand it, the point is that the embryo and the endometrium are in tune with each other in terms of timing... So, a 2-day embryo is not ready to implant and a 2-day lining is not ready for implantation. Same with a 3-day embryo... The lining on average matures around day 6, I believe, and stays mature/ready for implantation until day 12 or so. Similarly, the embryo starts to be ready to implant around day 6 and remains ready for implantation for a week or so. A day 5 transfer isn't really better, as I understand... It's true that the embryo would only arrive in the uterus around day 5, so its natural environment before then is the fallopian tube rather than the uterus. Still, embryologists I've spoken to have been adamant that the uterus is a better environment for a day 2, 3, or 4 embryo than the lab. So, according to them, it goes: best environment for days 2-3-4 is fallopian tubes, then uterus, then lab. The embryo doesn't hurt anything by hanging out in the uterus a bit early--it just can't implant. That's how I understand it, anyway!

    Anna: FWIW, oestrogen priming has always helped eliminate my functional (oestrogen-producing, specifically) cysts and to avoid the formation of new ones. However, I'm not sure the scan picture you described is consistent with you having ovulated... if you can, I'd take a progesterone test to figure out where in your cycle you actually are (specifically: are you really in your luteal phase, as you believe?)... My cycles are generally very regular, but sometimes they're weirdly slow, usually because they start with a cyst... Ovulation does happen--it's just delayed. As for your conversation with your husband, I'm really, really sorry... This process takes it out of everybody. It really does. It's good to start talking about the future, but the fact is, you've got some OE chances still ahead of you... Hopefully--hopefully! the DE decision will simply be irrelevant in future... and surely if there is a OE baby, you'll both fall in love with it. That's the scenario I'm envisaging for you...

    tily: I'm glad I didn't freak you out--I'll go find something else to feel guilty about, then ;-). Please add one to the reservation number, then--my friend is less technically savvy than many of us here, but she has certainly been through a whole lot... I'm really looking forward to seeing you! If it is on the 10th, the only thing I regret is that Cramer seems not to be able to make it...

    AFM: this is a moan, so if you don't feel like reading one, look away! My partner's best friend and his girlfriend are visiting for 3 days... He has 3 kids with his estranged wife, who decided to move with the kids to the other side of the world--a place where he wouldn't be able to get a job in his field. His middle child is 4--she's been in this world for as long as DP and I have been TTC. His youngest is 2. He and his girlfriend have been together for about 18 months. They announced that they are 5 months pregnant, and I congratulated them warmly despite my deep surprise and--let's face it--wild envy. She's in her late 30s, so I totally understand her hurry. So far, so just-about-bearable. When I congratulated them, he said, "We're very happy. We've been trying for a long time, and it's been difficult." Now, he's my partner's best friend. He's not unaware of our difficulties. In this context, he has no flipping idea what "trying for a long time" or "difficult" means. Even if they started trying from the moment they met (which is hopefully unlikely), that would still mean it only took them just over a year to get pregnant. FFS. Bloody insensitive jerk. And poor DP has been feeling guilty about feeling envious. I mean, come on. Ok, moan over! xx