* Author Topic: Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6  (Read 115078 times)

0 Members

Offline LauraC81

  • Full Member
  • ***
modify
Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
« Reply #120 on: 6/02/18, 20:23 »
ShadyWheat: Thank you for the advice, do you think it will help with egg count too? (my quality is fine itís the number I struggle with).  As for you, how many attempts have you had?  Thatís awesome your doc is willing to put 2 back in, Iíd love that if we get to the stage where we have 2 viable embryos Ė given my limited chances I would love twins as really want two children if we can.  Understand why it would be a big decision though if youíve not thought about it that way before.

LXP:  Great news!  Keeping everything crossed for you! 

Helenbeau:  Not sure if I follow what youíre saying but if youíre saying what I think youíre saying then youíre ovulating when you would have if your period cycle had not been interrupted but the period itself is coming late, is that right?  If so thatís weird but also awesome that youíve worked that out and if youíre pretty confident that you are definitely ovulating when you think you are then I would definitely time your scan to that rather than the bleed.

Briss:  Did you do a blood test yet? Just re-read your last post and wondering if thereís still a chance?

All:  Some advice please, my last cycle I started Buserlin on day 21 of my cycle, I was on it for 21 days before my first scan, then started on Gonal F (I think it was 125 to start which they then upped for the last few days to 300) with Buserlin which I was on for 17 days until taking Ovitrille 36 hours before my egg collection.  They only got 3 eggs which they acted was a big surprise (I had 7 follicles of good size at the last scan with a few others not at the Ďrightí size).  The only previous sign was that I apparently had low AMH for my age (I canít remember exactly but think it was 10.6 and I was 35 when it was taken) but otherwise they hadnít seen any signs of low egg reserves.  Anyway, straight after egg collection the consultant told me I had a problem with my eggs which he didnít know about before and that next time round he would do things differently.  He has since changed his tune however and is saying nothing can be done and I just have low numbers of eggs so nothing he does will work Ė based on your own experiences would you agree or should I be pushing for something different?  I guess my main question though, if you think I should ask for different, is what to ask for as I have no clue!  Any advice would be great as I have my appointment at 9am tomorrow and want to discuss it with them then.  :-\

FertilityFriends

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    Offline tily

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    modify
    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #121 on: 6/02/18, 20:42 »
    Hi ladies,

    Pickle and Shady: look forward to seeing you Saturday.

    Lap: Awesome result! Those embies sound very healthy! Fingers crossed for a sticky transfer.

    Anna Kay: its a very difficult decision re DE. I've spent a year trying to convince my DH that we might have to go this route as I was terrified of having no options left. Now my DH is on board and tbh, I've the DE wobbles again.  But as all the others have said it has to be 100% right for us as they are our bodies. Some women get their heads around it easily but for some of us, it's just a huge mindbend. Still grateful it's there as neither DH nor I are interested in adoption. Try and take your time. Your DH might change his mind but you've the veto!!

    LauraC - welcome to a lovely thread!

    Klik - sorry you had that experience with your partners best friend. Some people are just so insensitive. People really have no idea of the scale of "difficult" or "hard" do they? They'd probably be mildly traumatised if we told them the full extent of our journies. Maybe we shouldn't protect these idiots, just turn around and say" yeah, I've had X many IVF transfers, dead embryos, miscarriages etc. IT IS REALLY DIFFICULT!!! It might shut them up...

    Sunshine - I've just oestrogen primed this month gone so will let you know it it has worked or not after bloods tomorrow. I took 10 days cyclogest until I had full pms and nothing on the POAS so will be interesting to see what the bloods say. I don't feel oversuppressed though. I get a very distinctive migraine when my oestrogen plunges so I'm praying it's stayed highish and FSH has been forced down.

    Helenbeau - glad you saved some money on the scan. Treat yourself to something nice. Also, apparently whilst we are thought that the ovaries and uterus are always working in perfect harmony, they are actually independent systems and can be out of sync.

    Sunshine, Katkat, Briss, everyone else - hi!

    AFM AF arrived yesterday. COntaced the Lister nurses and about 50 consent forms needed to thaw my husbands sperm and he has to call to verify that he signed the forms ( somebody obviously created embryos against their partners will!!). Have baseline scan booked for tomorrow. Having a very painful AF. Not sure if it's the endo, a cyst, the hysterscopy; at this stage it could be anything!!

    I've agreed with consultant if FSH>20 at baseline, will go fully natural. If less than 20, I've the meds bought for a Femara plus Gonal F combo. The rollercoaster begins again!!

    Hope to meet some more of you at the weekend, think we are 8/9 now. Waiting for confirmation from restaurant.

    Offline ShadyWheat

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    modify
    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #122 on: 6/02/18, 20:58 »
    Tily, good luck for tomorrow! Hoping that everything looks good for you to get back on the rollercoaster and looking forward to seeing you on Saturday.

    Laura, just quickly, where are you cycling? Are the 3 embryos that you have frozen blasts? If so, I personally wouldn't be too worried that you don't produce many eggs if they turn into high quality embryos (e.g. a friend of mine produces 20 eggs per go, but actually only ended up with only the same number of embryos per cycle as I did) Unfortunately there is very little that you can do to produce more follicles and eggs. The clinic I was at before just ramped up the drugs (which is what some clinics do for poor responders), but that essentially shut me down and there is conflicting evidence on whether it affects egg quality. Did your clinic measure your E2 levels when you cycled last time? That is usually a good indicator of how many good quality eggs you have, it is a little surprising that you had 7 follicles and only got 3 eggs, but maybe your bloods may have suggested that only a few of the follicles had eggs in them.The other thing to remember is that follicle number does vary from month to month so you may have a better result another time and your AMH isn't that low compared to lots of us on here. You may want to ask them to start you at a dose of 300 rather than 125 to try and recruit more follicles at the start of the cycle.  If you are going to be doing lots of cycles to batch embryos for PGD, you may also want to consider a mild protocol, a few of us on here have done this - it's a bit easier on the wallet and on the body but won't get you more eggs.....I do a letrozole + 150u menopur but another variant is clomid + stimms. ps I have started 5 cycles but only got to transfer twice, luckily I now have a few in the freezer which makes it a bit easier.

    Offline LauraC81

    • Full Member
    • ***
    modify
    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #123 on: 6/02/18, 21:15 »
    Tily, good luck for tomorrow! Hoping that everything looks good for you to get back on the rollercoaster and looking forward to seeing you on Saturday.

    Laura, just quickly, where are you cycling? Are the 3 embryos that you have frozen blasts? If so, I personally wouldn't be too worried that you don't produce many eggs if they turn into high quality embryos (e.g. a friend of mine produces 20 eggs per go, but actually only ended up with only the same number of embryos per cycle as I did) Unfortunately there is very little that you can do to produce more follicles and eggs. The clinic I was at before just ramped up the drugs (which is what some clinics do for poor responders), but that essentially shut me down and there is conflicting evidence on whether it affects egg quality. Did your clinic measure your E2 levels when you cycled last time? That is usually a good indicator of how many good quality eggs you have, it is a little surprising that you had 7 follicles and only got 3 eggs, but maybe your bloods may have suggested that only a few of the follicles had eggs in them.The other thing to remember is that follicle number does vary from month to month so you may have a better result another time and your AMH isn't that low compared to lots of us on here. You may want to ask them to start you at a dose of 300 rather than 125 to try and recruit more follicles at the start of the cycle.  If you are going to be doing lots of cycles to batch embryos for PGD, you may also want to consider a mild protocol, a few of us on here have done this - it's a bit easier on the wallet and on the body but won't get you more eggs.....I do a letrozole + 150u menopur but another variant is clomid + stimms. ps I have started 5 cycles but only got to transfer twice, luckily I now have a few in the freezer which makes it a bit easier.

    ShadyWheat I am in Edinburgh.  The embryos were all day 1 frozen as I'm PGD so they need to be tested at day 3, they didn't want to send 3 for testing as numbers decline dramatically following testing hence I'm going for cycle 2, they'll take whatever they get from this and add to those 3 and test altogether...I was told though (although maybe they were just being kind) that the embryos were the best quality and I should be pleased with them.  I don't know if they measure E2 levels, they do a blood test every time I get a scan so perhaps that's what they were doing?

    Thank you so much for all your advice, I will definitely consider a mild protocol if we have to go self funded as simply don't have the 8k required otherwise!

    Offline Pickle123

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • If you're going through hell, keep going.
    modify
    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #124 on: 6/02/18, 21:16 »
    Laura, I am reading this thread from bottom up so canít see if youíve made other posts but re your question and 9am deadline, I was over suppressed when on bureselin. My ovaries took too long to wake up. If you havenít tried a short protocol, ie no downregulation via hormones to close down your system, I would consider trying that rather than repeating the same approach.

    Shady, Tily, yes, looking forward to seeing you on Saturday :-)


    Offline LauraC81

    • Full Member
    • ***
    modify
    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #125 on: 6/02/18, 21:16 »
    PS Tily good luck!

    Offline Helenbeau

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    modify
    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #126 on: 6/02/18, 22:15 »
    Briss... yes you explained it perfectly, much better than my attempt. When my period has been late Iíve ovulated early or in fact perfectly on time had the period not been late. So Iím hoping as I started my period early this time my ovulation will be late and thatís why thereís no sign of it so far. Iím definitely pushing the scan back a few days as my day 11 today is more like my day 7 if follicles have carried on regardless.

    Tily.... again you summed it up nicely. It does seem true that ovaries and uterus work independently and a period doesnít necessarily mean itís the first day of your cycle if youíve been taking any drugs the previous month. Another important consideration for everyone if considering back to back cycles. Having a break will help the ovaries and uterus become more in sync!
    Also, I think I missed the poll link about Saturdayís meeting. I didnít think Iíd be able to make it as Iím on a course on Saturday and Sunday this weekend.... but maybe I can gatecrash for some of the evening depending on where youíll be? It would be sad to miss out on actually meeting you all.
    Super exciting that youíre staring again. Back on the roller coaster. Good luck for tomorrow!

    Laura... difficult to know what you should ask but try to remember that month to month can be different in terms of how many follicles and eggs you produce. Thereís no magic formula (donít we all wish there was) Iíve learnt from this thread that there are sooooo many different combinations and protocols and thereís no way to predict what will or would happen on any one of them. Am I right in thinking you have three frozen blasts? Why arenít you transferring them before trying another cycle? Iím confused that you are testing them after they are frozen...I thought they had to be tested fresh and only if they get to day 5? Thatís what happened with mine.
    Good luck for tomorrow x


    Offline klik

    • Gold Member
    • *****
    modify
    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #127 on: 6/02/18, 23:02 »
    tily: Oh, yes, I'd have loved to have shamed him into a little bit of empathy. But yeah, people are often just self-absorbed idiots. Another friend I like much better told me I looked very happy holding his newborn baby (in point of fact, it was bittersweet). He's a sweetheart, but he was just assuming that if he's happy, everyone must be happy. Re. consent forms, yes, somewhere in the UK a woman who had separated (or divorced?) from her husband forged his signature and had some frozen embryos transferred. She ended up with a daughter and the man unsuccessfully sued the clinic for the costs of educating his daughter privately. Something like that. Anyway, I'm sorry your natural attempt did not bear fruit, but best of luck with baseline and onwards! I'm looking forward to seeing you!

    Laura: if there's one thing I hate, it is clinics that only try one thing and then blame the patient if it doesn't work. I'm half-minded to ask you to consider moving clinics. Echoing Pickle, you've tried long protocol--now perhaps it is time to try short protocol, perhaps with oestrogen priming or norethisterone or the pill for a week or two to quieten your ovaries a bit. I honestly find it idiotic that a clinic would put you on long protocol and then complain about your response, rather than switch the protocol around. Long protocol often oversuppresses (though sometimes it's brilliant for) DOR women, so I find it not even a little surprising that it had that effect on you. Sorry, I'm in a bad mood! So yeah, I think short protocol, and then maybe use Clomid or letrozole to try to recruit more follicles once you've made your ovaries sleepy with oestrogen or norethisterone or whatever, and then go on to use the 125 Gonal-F or whatever. As Shady has hinted, it's kind of equivalent to upping your stims dosage, except you use your own naturally-made FSH, which apparently is more effective. That's what I'd try for you, personally... So yeah, I'd encourage you to ask about short antagonist protocol, ideally with Clomid or letrozole to start... Good luck...

    Shady: wow, your friend's husband sounds like a real jewel of a man. So enraging that he gets to drink and take drugs and yet only take 6 months to conceive! Please don't worry about your AF being light this first time... They aspirated pretty much everything that was in there, after all... I forget, are you able to try naturally?! If so, good luck! If not, best of luck next cycle--there is a sense, which even doctors seem to share, that one is far more fertile in the couple of months after a m/c... Not sure whether it's follicles or lining or both, but hopefully at least the lining and, if natural is an option, the follicles too!

    LXP: For some people, everything is always about them. It's exasperating, because they are entirely clueless, but at least it's possible to get one thing out of it: you can get really angry at them and not feel guilty about that at all! Also (and this is really naughty of me) you can comfort yourself with the fact that when you finally have a baby, it's going to have a mother who is not clueless. (Actually that makes me sad for her kids.) Re. your embryos, that sounds great! Were they 10 cells at the same time of day as they were fertilised? If so, yeah, a little fast, but quite good. "Not far behind" is an odd thing to say--9 cells, then?! Best of luck for your day 5 call!

    Helen: re. my partner's friend, I cut him no slack for being a man. I reckon we as a society expect less of men than of women, and that's why they get promoted ahead of us and earn more than we do. Anyway, as LXP noted, insensitivity comes from both genders! As for progesterone, I find it depends on the type and amount, and when I start it, and even then it's somewhat random. But yes, it's not at all unusual that follicles develop even while AF is being suppressed via artificial progesterone. Still, some REs believe (and I with them!) that a common problem for DOR women is, we don't produce enough progesterone for long enough in our luteal phase. Apparently good embryos can implant as late as 12 DPO, so you need to figure out if you're going to give those late implanters a chance... That might mean a shorter follicular phase next cycle, but, at least in my personal experience, that doesn't affect the quality of the eggs... But yes, each person is different. I think Briss has found that it does mess with her egg quality, though, so yeah, you just have to figure out what works for you, personally... Anyway, to your current concern, I'd do my scan (and possibly trigger) only once it looks like LH has shown its face--I'd keep on the cheapo OPKs!

    Pickle: looking forward to meeting you in person, finally!

    Briss: you must be on AF watch... Again, I'm so sorry... I hope you get a good cycle again, soon... xx

    AFM: getting information about this hysteroscopy is like pulling teeth! Last week the hospital sent me all sorts of useless information (like, what time is lunch?) but nothing like, "nil by mouth from x o'clock." That is coming from the clinic instead. They presumably sent me that info a week ago by post, but it hasn't arrived here yet, so there's probably a neighbour of mine who's got my hysteroscopy instructions. There is no privacy in this world!

    btw, doodle poll is here: https://doodle.com/poll/ycrq4b982t6756ir

    Offline Briss

    • Gold Member
    • *****
    modify
    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #128 on: 7/02/18, 11:53 »
    AF turned up as expected on 15 DPO. The last day when I took progesterone was 10 dpo  so it took 4 days. Bring on the next cycle

    Katkat, your 16 dpo  beta is high enough I think it would have probably still showed up as positive on 11 dpo.  Munich is not looking for a strong beta on 11 dpo  but for any  beta as opposed to 0. With my daughter I had something like 16 but was good enough. If I had any number even something like 3 or 4 I would have waited and tested again but 0 doesn't really  give any hope.

    Offline tily

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    modify
    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #129 on: 7/02/18, 13:13 »
    Hi Ladies,

    Sorry just dashing. It looks like I've 3 follicles, a 9,10 and 11mm.

    What would you do to make them keep growing evenly?

    Think it's too late to bother with Femara?? Just Gonal f to keep pushing them on...

    Waiting for bloods and have emailed consultant but would also be interested in anyone has had similar sizes and got them to grow together...