* Author Topic: Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6  (Read 127006 times)

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Offline MSJ

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Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
« Reply #1740 on: 30/12/18, 21:56 »
Just a message for babyhopeful I'm so sorry to hear your news, you must be in total shock at the moment. It really is heartbreaking. With my miscarriage I did also have a brown discharge on one occasion, a day or so after some cramping, and I also started to not feel pregnant anymore, as during pregnancy I was a real moody cow and extremely fatigued to the point I couldn't cope with doing day to day stuff. I was worried when I started to feel myself again, so I went for a scan at the EPU by joining a pilot study they were carrying out. This was all before I started ivf so I wasn't used to all the private scan and tests etc, and thru normal nhs route they said I would have to wait for my 12 wk scan. Sadly the baby had stopped developing and no heart beat. Even though I was worried we were in total shock and devastated, so I do know how you are feeling, but it will get easier...

Please do not blame yourself and torture yourself, there's nothing you can do about it. But I do understand as I was blaming myself for something stupid I did unintentionally as well.

If you want to do karyotype testing it might be better to have surgery to manage the miscarriage as if it happens naturally, you may not catch enough of the tissue if its broken down. Mine was fully intact sac (extremely painful), so it could have been sent for testing, unfortunately due to various reasons I ended up in a different hospital and they didn't store it properly.

Sending you hugs xx


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    Offline Babyhopeful

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    « Reply #1741 on: 1/01/19, 14:58 »
    Kilk, Helenbeau and MSJ - Thank you for your advice and support xx

    Things took a turn for the worse on Sunday. I had a high temperature and felt very unwell. I managed to get hold of the out of hours GP and she referred me straight to the EPU. I had a scan, which confirmed the pregnancy had ended and I was given antibiotics as they felt an infection was developing. They managed to fit me in for a second scan yesterday and gave me the pessaries to induce the miscarriage. This was the quickest option as retaining the pregnancy was making me ill and the earliest an ERPC could be scheduled was next week. The miscarriage occurred last night. It was all over in a few hours and Iím proud of my body for dealing with everything so efficiently. I was very unwell though and lost so much blood that DH was considering taking me to A&E. As everything was happening so quickly I was unable to identify and catch the fetus, so Iíll never know for sure what caused the miscarriage. The sonographers at the hospital were able to identify that the baby died at 8 weeks 5 days, just 2 days after my last scan and before I reduced the prednisolone and had the flu jab. This has reassured me that those factors probably didnít cause the miscarriage.

    I now feel like Iím in limbo and any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated. We have one more round of IVF left at our clinic and a frostie. Should I have some immune testing and a hysteroscopy before my next treatment, which is probably not going to be for at least two months to give me time to recover? In the meantime shall we try naturally with cyclogest, or will this mess up my cycles for treatment?  Iím also thinking to postpone my next treatment cycle and do some embryo banking with another clinic. Or Iím thinking to just skip my OEs and move to DE at either my current clinic or a new clinic. I think as with all of us DH and I would just like a child and an end to all this gruelling treatment and heartache ☹️ xxx

    Offline klik

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    « Reply #1742 on: 1/01/19, 18:00 »
    Babyhopeful: you are an amazing, strong woman! I'm full of admiration for you... I'm so sorry you got an infection... I hope the scans were not too painful--I remember my EPU scan for my first m/c was horrendously painful, because I was already cramping and the sonographer had no idea what she was doing... I'm glad your EPU accelerated things as much as possible for you, and I'm glad you've held up through this so well... Passing an 8w5d embryo means a lot of blood, pain, and so much sorrow... I'm so sorry. All of this is just too painful... As for what is next, I completely understand your wish to make plans, but you do, in fact, have some time to decide... shortly after your next AF, it's recommended that you check that there are no retained products. A hysteroscopy is the "gold standard" so if you're thinking of doing that anyway, this is a possibility for you... But a lot of clinics just recommend a 3D SIS or a HSG. Personally, I ended up having retained products and then having adhesions, so in the end I needed hysteroscopies anyway... As you've had an infection, I think a hysteroscopy might be something to think about... But it all depends on how much money you're able to spend, how much you value investigations vs just getting on with it, and so on. Each of us is really different when it comes to those--I tend to be a "check everything" kind of gal, but it's really up to you... I'm personally a fan of embryo banking, but again it's up to you--the pregnancy forum for my July-August cohort has, I think, 3 women expecting DE babies, and they're all over the moon. I know I pushed DP almost to the breaking point with my insistence on OE and on refusing to even grow the embryos to blastocyst, and then we got really lucky (I'm hoping!) You just never know what's in store for you... Follow your heart. And for now, please do be kind to yourself--m/cs are just so heartbreaking... I send you a big hug...

    Briss: did your AF arrive yet?! When I was on an agonist my AF came, I think, with normal timing... But I think they'd also put me on norethisterone so the withdrawal caused the bleed, so maybe something to think about?! Agonists are like being in a foreign land, because they really shut everything down... I hope your AF comes soon, one way or another...

    Helen: to help establish if you've ovulated, you might want to measure your progesterone... If it's consistent with the luteal phase, then yes, you've ovulated... Hard to know about your AFC--might be early, luteal-phase follicles? Or possibly your corpus luteum is a cyst that's been producing progesterone and therefore has messed with your cycle? I've never done an AFC at any time apart from baseline, so really have no idea what antral follicles look like outside of that time... As for letrozole, by suppressing oestrogen it causes your natural FSH to spike (LH too, in the process). It's like taking stims, except your body is producing the stims itself... Apparently Clomid is marginally better at recruiting more follicles, but a number of studies have shown letrozole to be just as good--the jury's a bit out on this, but you get the idea of what it's meant to do. It works quite well for a lot of DOR women, so I hope it works for you... Best of luck...

    MSJ: how are you? I so hope the near future is bright for you... Good luck...

    I hope all of you have a very happy and successful 2019. There have been some good news on this thread and I really hope to see more... Some very sad news, and I hope to see less of those... I wish you all a year with as little of this intense suffering that plagues so many of us, and full of well-founded hope, joy, health, and success... You all more than deserve it! xx

    Offline queenie123

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    « Reply #1743 on: 2/01/19, 16:05 »

    Babyhopeful - I am so so sorry for you,  I hope you can give yourself a break. 
    I agree with the others this is completely nothing to do with the drugs or flu jab, but just something which is a risk at 9 - 10 weeks.  I'm sorry you didn't manage to catch anything to get the genetic testing, but you need to look after you - you come first, and you can only do so much.  I think immune testing is a good idea, at least it will tell you if you need more help on the immune side, as I'm sure you know the pred dose you were on really isn't an immunosurpriesive dose.

    It's really sad, I hope you can have some time to grieve, but don't loose all hope - you have got to 9 weeks, which is a lot further than I have got to yet, so it proves you can do it!

    I also agree that if you are confident the sonographer didn't miss the heartbeat then I would stop all the drugs.  I have a sonographer I trust and if she told me it had died I would be as sure that was the case as if the best sonographer scanned.  A false negative (by which I mean scanning that it had died at 9 weeks when it had infact hadn't) I think would be so rare it would be nearly impossible.  I'm so sorry they make  you have so many scans to relive it all!

    Helen - I have optimistically booked flights for a hypothetical day 5 transfer so I might be there on the Saturday the 12th.   
    Letrazole stops you making as much Oestrogen, which keeps your natural FSH high at the start of the cycle for longer, it also means that you start Cetrotide later as your Oestrogen doesn't get so high as quickly and you keep growing the follicles, and it doesn't have the bad effects which Clomic can have on the lining.
    Can you have a blood test to check for Progesterone?  It might be an old corups luteum / corpus albicans.


    AFM - I had a scan this morning and R: 2 x follicles - 15,11; L Ovary 1 x follcile - 10.  Linning only 4.9, but I did take a bit of Letrazole early on.  I'm not doing bloods as I don't need to stress of dropping in the sample.
    I have flights booked for Sunday to have EC at Serum on Monday or Tueady, I hope it all works out and they accept my paperwork etc. so I can go straight for egg collection if needed. 


    Offline Briss

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    « Reply #1744 on: 3/01/19, 11:22 »
    Happy New Year, ladies!

    Am back at work feeling rather miserable but trying to be hopeful. My ex just had his 5th child.... I'm not jealous but it still stirs up all too familiar anxieties.

    My AF did turn up but a few days late. Still, Munich instructed to start pergoveris on what should have been day 6. I don't know how long protocol works but it looks like CD 1 does not have the same meaning it's all about when I started down reg.  They want to see my bloods after 7 days of stims but I decided to do them early just in case I have something unusual it's easier to track if you have something to compare it to.  My day 3 bloods looked sort of ok LH 5 and estrogen 100. I see much lower numbers after estrogen priming so possibly I may have ovulation sooner than on estrogen priming cycles.

    Babyhopeful, your miscarriage story is hard but also inspiring. I'm always amazed at our bodies. I had a similar feeling after my miscarriage was just in awe of my body and how it handled the whole thing without much input from me. I too missed the embryo and was unable to test it for chromosomal errors. I did go overboard with testing for everything I could think of trying to work out the reason for MMC. I guess first thing is to ensure you have no retained product. A scan in a few days is a good idea. Also a pregnancy test to confirm zero beta is a good sign.  One thing that worries me in your case is infection. Temperature means possibly a rather serious infection that could have been there for a bit of time. I hope AB cleared it as quickly as possible but these uterine infections can be quite challenging to tackle. Sometimes they are just suppressed and still there for a while. One of the signs is often tail end spotting so I'd pay close attention to your af for the next few cycles. Hysteroscopy might be in order but with any invasive testing it all depends on the professional performing the procedure. If you can find someone super good at it that could check without causing any harm. Alternatively a scan with Dr jurkovic might be sufficient but you need to check what is the best day to see if there is any sign of inflammation in the uterus.  Infections often lead to Endometritis (not to be confused with endometriosis ) which is very tricky to diagnose and treat. embryo banking sounds like a good idea to me.

    Offline Sunshine122

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    « Reply #1745 on: 3/01/19, 18:51 »
    Babyhopeful, Iím so sorry for all that youíve been through, but glad your body has dealt with it efficiently. Agree with the other ladies about a hysteroscopy but go somewhere that is recommended as you see so often people posting about things being missed or clinics saying things are normal that arenít. We looked into immunes, they can obviously get very expensive but can be cheaper abroad, when I was looking into it someone suggested reading Ďis your body baby friendlyí first. Regarding banking, I do feel a little better knowing we still have a couple frozen, however I donít think we would do any further banking cycles when they are used/if things donít work out, only because I canít cope with dragging this process out any longer so now would rather just do a cycle, then transfer etc. Although it does make sense to have more chance of having more than one child in the future by banking, but now I know I will be super lucky to get one baby and if I want another, well Iíll just cross that bridge when I come to it. Does your clinic have a time limit on using up your package?

    Briss, sorry you are so stressed with work, hope things get better.

    Queenie, wishing you all the luck with Serum, enjoy your time in Athens.

    Had a bit of a day!! Since yesterday morning was getting a really sharp stabbing pain in my right groin every minute or so, it was still there when I woke up in the night so decided to go off to A&E this morning convinced it was an ectopic. After spending nearly 4 hours in our local hospital, lots of blood taken, physical examination but no scans available (our local EPU is only open 45 mins a day!!), they wanted to get me an ambulance to the next nearest hospital 30 mins away for a scan even though DH was with me they were worried about him taking me as my heart rate was a little high, which I explained was most likely due to nerves, eventually they agreed to let us sign a disclaimer saying we were happy to make our own way there, finally let us leave still with the cannula in my arm, which I hate. The EPU there saw us (even though it was deemed OOHís!! just after lunchtime!) more horrible internal examinations and finally a scan. So relieved to see a little heartbeat in the right place but wish we had just gone to our clinic for a scan in the first place. Luckily the pain has stopped now. I keep telling DH not to get his hopes up, whilst I know this is good news its still such a long way to go.

    Offline klik

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    « Reply #1746 on: 3/01/19, 21:21 »
    queenie: fingers crossed for 3! Hopefully everything will go smoothly at Serum...

    Briss: glad AF turned up! They've kept you on the downreg, though, while they start to stim you, right? If so you hopefully don't have to worry about LH... Glad oestrogen is making a showing--at least I'd be relieved to know I wasn't completely shut down...

    Sunshine: oh, no, I can only imagine how desperate it must have been to think you had an ectopic! Your beta was really strong, so frankly an ectopic wouldn't have made sense, but I can totally understand why you thought that! I wonder what that pain was?! I mean, pregnant women tend to get gassy but that sounds like too strong a pain to be explained by gas... I hope you never get this again. Congratulations on the heartbeat and I'm glad your OH is enjoying the hope. A heartbeat is no guarantee of anything but it sure helps! Best of luck...

    AFM: scan tomorrow--fingers crossed he's still going strong...

    Offline Briss

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    « Reply #1747 on: 4/01/19, 14:28 »
    Klik, best of luck with your scan. How are you feeling? I hope there was no more bleeding and hematoma has resolved so you can enjoy your pregnancy.  Second trimester is the best actually not as tired and sick as in first and yet not too heavy as in 3rd. Try and enjoy it!

    I'm continuing with nasal down reg spray while on 225 of pergoveris. I was told to use the spray up until the trigger. They expect to stim me for around 10 days but I doubt my follicles will grow this fast actually (if at all). Not sure how easy it is to source pergoveris in London. I wonder if I should just fly to Munich for my next scan and buy any extra meds there?

    Sunshine, what an ordeal! I'm so glad the baby is fine and you got to see the HB. Did they work out the reason for your pain? I know in early stages implantation can be quite painful, stabbing pain is exactly how ladies described it.  Implantation is not just the initial attachment of the embryo. it's an ongoing process that can take weeks.

    Queenie, best of luck with your EC next week, follicles are looking good I hope everything works out


    Helen, i agree with Klik, progesterone is the best marker for ovulation. With scans I find a lot depends on who does the scan, I've seen really obvious mistakes made in interpreting the scan but from what you described it does look like ovulation took place. It's strange to miss LH surge and not to see a temp rise though.

    Afm, had a chat with my cardiologist and he is convinced my hypotension/high blood pressure is having an effect on my fertility.  I initially dismissed it but having thought about it a bit more there might be something to it. I never had issues with BP and got bfp after most transfers whereas now not a single one not even a faint one. And while I still think age/egg quality are prime factors plus possibly BF, a part of me still thinks there must have been something else at play because some of my embryos were actually ok to at least try to implant. My cardiologist was unable to articulate the exact link between BP and fertility so I'm not entirely sure how they are connected. Anyway I am not ready to go on permanent medication so asked for 3 month to try and make a difference with my gym efforts. I might be (relatively) slim but I'm so unfit I had no idea. Went to a bum legs and tums class and was shocked to discover I can just about keep up with the elderly and people with hip replacements... i mean these are my people??

    Offline Helenbeau

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    « Reply #1748 on: 4/01/19, 15:50 »
    Briss, haha youíre post made me laugh. I totally feel you! I went to yoga the other day having not been for a few months and I was hopeless. The old ladies had no problems! Iím annoyed with myself because I was relatively fit and after the MC I basically comfort ate. Being away in Budapest did t help as it was difficult to maintain a normal healthy lifestyle. I drank more than I normally do right up until New Yearís Day. Iíve even had quite a few cheeky cigarettes. Now with one week to go before I start stims Iím packing it all in. But you know what Iíll try not to feel too guilty about it. Iíve been a bloody saint and that didnít get me a baby so Iíll try this alternative approach. Although I am gutted to be starting a new cycle with a bit fat jelly belly as it only gets worse once the hormones start. Iím dying to know how you get on with stims. Fingers crossed this time.

    Sunshine, hoping everything keeps going in the right direction for you.

    Babyhopeful, sorry for your awful ordeal. Getting the fetus tested is not the be all and end all and in fact it does t really give you any answers. Just have faith that it was sadly one of those things and next time will be the one. Give your body some time to rest now. I wouldnít rush into a cycle, maybe in two periods time though you can start again. Iím personalky not a fan of banking because I know my body doesnít like lots of drugs so I prefer to have a break, and Iíd rather just get embryos transferred as soon as possible.

    Klik, hope scan is good today.

    Shady, I am back. I am jobless 😂. When are you going back for FET?

    Kat, are you staring FET soon?

    AFM...the ovulation mystery continues. I had a progesterone test, I think around 6/7 days after ovulation and itís 16.1 ng ml which I think is good to should ovulation as the marker is between 1.5 - 20ng ml, so it quite high. So the collapsed corpus luteum and progesterone suggest ovulation. The OPK kind suggested it but it was only vaguely positive and disappeared very quickly. However my temp hasnít risen, in fact itís been really low. I donít understand it as everything Iíve read says it has to rise. Iím not going to worry about it and now Iíve had the progesterone test I feel confident I ovulated and I will get my period when I expect it fingers crossed as this is mainly about predicting the day of my AF for flights and stuff. Itís bloody weird though! Why is there always something to worry about when youíre about to start a cycle? All I want is a normal period and a normal baseline scan and then I can start jabbing myself with hideous amounts of drugs! 😂 The AFC of 12 is also weird. Itís never been over 9! Could that be from supplements or something?

    Offline klik

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    « Reply #1749 on: 4/01/19, 20:27 »
    Briss: thanks! I hope I'll be able to just enjoy the pregnancy at some point, but right now I can't shake the worry... Update below... Yeah, 10 days of stims may well not be enough, but we just don't know how you'll react to this protocol--hopefully really well! Interesting, your cardiologist linking BP to fertility... A shame he can't put his finger on it, but it does make some sense that if your system is not ticking along perfectly then that will make everything else harder... Re. your experience in exercise class, I feel really hard done by all the prohibitions against exercise over the years (can't exercise while stimming, can't exercise in the 2ww, now I can't exercise while pregnant...) I started ignoring some of those (if I only grow 2 follicles anyway, what's the harm of exercising while stimming?!) Anyway, my rule was, if my ovaries start hurting, I stop exercising. And if you keep up with it, I'm sure you'll be lapping the old ladies in no time, poor things!

    Helen: thanks! I'm glad you've let your hair down. I think it's super important to do that sometimes... And re. not being fit for yoga, MCs are hard to process (and you have to let your body rest afterwards anyway) so whatever you needed to do was fair game, I'd say... Welcome back! Re. your body temperature, it's the progesterone that makes you hotter, so if the progesterone is relatively high there must be something else countering the progesterone. Oestrogen brings the temperature down, though I have to say for me the progersterone has a much bigger effect... Also, for me, sometimes when I have a cold my body temperature, strangely, goes down. I'm sure there are lots of other potential reasons that I don't know about!

    AFM: scan went relatively well: little guy is alive, heart is beating, all the bits of him are growing on target. He wasn't moving, unfortunately, and I do have a brand new subchorionic haematoma, so the sonographer didn't want to tap my belly to make him move. New haematoma means continued spotting, and still no exercise and no BD for me. It also means not really being able to relax, even though in most cases there's still a live baby at the end of the story. I've only told a pretty limited number of people, and I hope I do get to the point when I can confidently say I'm pregnant and really expect there to be a baby at the end...