* Author Topic: Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6  (Read 125050 times)

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Offline Sunshine122

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Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
« Reply #1830 on: 23/01/19, 13:20 »
Just a quick update from me, went in for the scan yesterday evening, I was so so sure that it was all over, I went into the scan room and told the sonographer that we were just there to confirm a miscarriage, I even had a go at my poor DH for still holding out a glimmer of hope. But little one was still there, heart beating and wriggling his little legs. I was so sure it would be bad news as there really was a lot of blood. Apparently the bleed has come from the cervix and there could still be a bit more to come, but atleast I know what it is, although I donít know why and Iím too scared to google. But for now everything is ok and we are overjoyed, though of course Iím still worried. Iím still taking clexane, although after the first bit of spotting create said I could stop using it, but I carried on Ďjust incase,í do you think I should stop this now?

Shady, so glad that your FET is going well and you are finding it stress free, are you having 2 transferred? I also like keeping an eye on the Meghan gossip, esp the so called Ďfeudí between her and Kate. Iím team Kate all the way, I have never thought Meghan sincere but I do really like Kate and her lovely little family.

Klik, glad all is still going well with you, have you started to tell your friends/ colleagues yet?

Babyhopeful, I hope your hormones start to settle down soon, I love reflexology too so I hope it is helping you to relax. Xx

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    Offline MSJ

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    « Reply #1831 on: 23/01/19, 14:38 »
    Hi sorry Iíve been away for a while. I went back to work and it has completely taken over my life. Ive been trying to fit in some reading and research on endometriosis and adenomyosis as well. I have a follow up consultation at the end of this month for surgery.

    Iíll try and catch up with everyone but sunshine and Klik, Iím glad things are still going well and Iím sorry sunshine for the recent scare.

    Nov - I would probably go for 2 next transfer as I want to just get things moving now, and if things donít work out Iíll do DE. In my last 2 transfers I had 1 3aa blast transferred and I was bleeding before test date. Lack of progesterone support. 2nd transfer I had 3 blasts transferred although not as good quality but it didnít take so was gutting.

    Chini - Iíve also been told that I have adenomyosis recently by Create after an ultra sound, but apparently at the moment it should not effect implantation. Iím a little dubious about the diagnosis as I know it can be hard to diagnose. Can I ask how you got your confirmed diagnosis of severe adenomyosis? I have endometriosis (confirmed by laparoscopy) and adenomyosis now and have been trying to read up. Although Iím not getting any clear/easy answers. I joined the forum on social media called Nancyís Nook. It has a lot of useful information on there. Here is an article about adenomyosis and fertility from that forum which you may find useful. Down regulation before transfer does seem to be on there as a treatment. There are also new emerging fertility sparing treatment for adenomyosis but I think itís quite new and difficult to do. I also read somewhere immune therapy could help. Iíll need to dig that out again.

    http://l.social media.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.contemporaryobgyn.net%2Farticle%2Fadenomyosis-and-its-impact-fertility&h=AT0ZKULbh967FJhPOiGFZYZUomQOZeLFwsnit4hQ3nPrXcyMytDmrVfE0XjRTQsj9Ud-5KG55X6INUUzx2PFZkCDCcFAL-g4qTM5DyeXQaf7my9kn4YBnbgSXiFs&s=1

    On the Megan discussion I too think sheís probably had fertility treatment, thatís always been at the back of my mind when they announced their wedding so quickly. I actually thought maybe sheís pregnant so it must be a shut gun wedding

    AFM Iím hopefully starting my next banking cycle early Feb. Hopefully work wonít be too stressful. I already got a phone call to book me in for surgery on the 14th Feb which I declined! I wasnít expecting it to come so quickly as I would like to do a couple of more banking rounds before surgery as time to retrieve eggs isnít on my side.  And after surgery I imagine Iíll need body to heal for a month or so. Iíll ask at my follow up consultation. Iím hoping theyíll be able to put my mind at ease a bit about surgery. Ideally will ask to be conservative ie his advice on not to remove cysts from right ovary, will also ask about hydrosalpinx and adenomyosis.


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    Offline katkat2014

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    « Reply #1832 on: 23/01/19, 14:47 »
    Sunshine, I am so very happy for you that all is well!! You must have been so scared. When I had my bleed (and then early miscarriage) I always regretted that I continued to take the clexane, I personally would either reduce it or stop it for now.

    Shady, I didn't even know that you could do your first scan so late in the cycle, everyone I have spoken said to do it day 10 or so. But makes total sense to me that you need to give the estrogen some time. Glad it's been so stressfree for you! Do you continue with the estrogen throughout, even when you start taking the progesterone? Hope the colonscopy went well. I did mine without sedation and thought it was rather interesting to see how they did it. But the most hilarious thing for me were those kinds of pants you had to wear  ;D

    Briss, wow congrats on being pupo with such a great embryo! No sedation at all? Did you opt not to have any and why? I think we will just never know that if this was a natural cycle if you also had gotten this 8-cell embryo or if the dominant follicle would have been one of the other eggs that didn't fertilise... One doctor told me we ovulate the dominant one, and one told me we ovulate a random one. So a natural cycle this month may not have given you an embyro. But it may. ^idiot^

    Klik I decided not to delay, after all I've just done the scratch and want it to be wasted. Just need to make sure my lining grows and that I won't grow a follicle by accident! Hope all is well with the pregnancy, so exciting!

    Helen, hope it all went well, lots of luck for this cycle! About the vag viagra, may get back to you on it ;)

    AFM, what do you girls think about testing my progesterone levels on the morning of embryo transfer. Would they give me a reliable after only taking progesterone for 5 days? Basically I only took 600mg utrogestan for my ERA test which is what I want to replicate as I was receptive on this (I don;t know if the ERA even depends on the amount of progesterone, or just on how many days you took it for!). But, I bled before otd on just 600mg utrogestan. So my plan was to take this lower dose of 3 x 200mg utrogestan and test my levels on day of blast transfer; and then possibly increase and switch to 2 x 400mg of cyclogest on the day of transfer.

    Offline klik

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    « Reply #1833 on: 23/01/19, 17:05 »
    Sunshine: Thanks! So very relieved to see your update! I was wondering how you were doing. But yes, even severe bleeds don't mean the worst in many cases! Do you have any reason to believe you're thrombophillic? If not, please do stop the Clexane. And any Aspirin and Omega 3 that you're taking. I imagine you've been continuing to take the Clexane because you think it's protecting the pregnancy, but in my understanding the blood-thinners are actually there to protect *you* from a blood clot. Not the embryo. I'm not saying you must sacrifice yourself (though all of us here definitely have done a lot of that!), but in my understanding the Clexane does not protect the pregnancy, so unless you have reason to believe you're prone to blood clots and therefore your life might be in danger otherwise, Clexane is contra-indicated when you have a bleed... I don't really know anything about cervix bleeds but I think I'd be relieved that the bleed is actually away from the uterus, though then again mine have initiated in the uterus and so far so good... I'm super happy for you!

    Briss: hurray for a stress-free (albeit expensive) cycle and congratulations on having an embryo on board! It's great that you've definitely found a way to keep LH down, but I really do understand you wondering about the cost-benefit... I think it's been some cycles since you've gotten an embryo, though, no?! Which would make this an astounding success. Well, maybe you won't have to think about this anymore--I'm really hoping this little one takes! I also wonder about maturity--maybe they got you to trigger a bit early? I tend to have high fertilisation rates so I'm never too sure what low fertilisation rates are about... Anyway, congratulations!!! Will you put your feet up or are you on the job hunt?!

    Shady: lol on the celeb magazines habit! I'm glad this cycle has been relatively stress-free... I really hope you get a good lining and then, finally, a good pregnancy... Sending you good vibes!!!

    MSJ: hurray for a cycle right around the corner! I'm 100% with you on trying not to touch your ovary. You still need it, after all, and anecdotally I've never seen anyone's ovary do better after an endometrioma has been removed... Why do you think you have hydrosalpinx? Have you considered seeing Dr Jurkovic for a clearer diagnosis? He tends to be very clear, with just a simple ultrasound... Or perhaps you've seen him already?

    katkat: thanks! hurray for no delay! I hope this is finally your cycle! Gosh, I don't remember when exactly progesterone levels get checked... hang on, I can check! Ok, so Cornell checks really often... They check the day before transfer, then on transfer day, then at 7dp3dt, then 9dp3dt, then 11dp3dt (when you also do a beta), and onwards if you get a BFP. From how frequently both my clinics have checked progesterone, it seems even 2 days of supplementation may make most of the difference, so 5 should be enough to determine whether or not you need more... In your place, I'd ask the docs whether the ERA has anything to do with the quantity of progesterone (my gut feeling is, not the quantity, but yes the type) and ask if you can increase it. Your natural progesterone should sustain you anyway until a couple of days before you usually bleed--I think 10dpo is often an inflection point, which is why some people take hcg booster shots then... But you could just test your progesterone roughly at that point and increase it if it's looking low... hcg boosters make it annoyingly impossible to test early, after all...

    AFM: afaik, pregnancy is ongoing. I fluctuate between being anxious and just being glad nothing bad is happening (no news is good news, I guess!) I can't really not tell people who see me, as the belly is not so easy to hide from people who know me (though even they could still assume I'm just eating too much, who knows?) But a lot of my family lives far away, and I haven't told any of them apart from my mother yet--initially out of fear, but at this point perhaps mostly out of laziness... Perhaps I'll call them this weekend, I don't know... Sunshine, I imagine you'll want things to settle down before telling more people? I certainly did...

    Offline queenie123

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    « Reply #1834 on: 24/01/19, 00:45 »
    Briss - Well done for getting so many,

    I think since you have had so many high LH cycles recently I would try and find a way to control the LH.  Synarela is clearly a good option, but I think there are others.

    Fingers crossed for your ET - well done on having a perfect one to transfer.

    Hoping you won't have to worry about weather or not there is a better protocol for you because this one works!

    Shady - When is your op?  I'm pleased you are feeling better off them, fingers crossed that is a permanent thing.

    Sunshine - ^pray^ for you. fingers crossed it all goes ok. So so pleased your scan was OK.  How many weeks are you along now?  Did they assess the placenta? I agree with Klik, I would stop unless you know you have 'thick' blood, even then once you have implantation it might do more harm than good.

    MSJ -  good luck with banking.

    katkat - sounds like a good plan to me, are you doing it fully medicated or ontop of your normal luteal phase hormones? Although I don't know for sure I would guess that ERA would be mainly time dependant, although it would be dependant on both progesterone and oestrogen concentration.

    Klik - I am with you, I think it's so hard to tell people before viability, but I am super glad you are a bit bored with nothing happening!!

    AFM - so thinking about my next cycle, it will probably be in Brno, this cycle embryo wasn't my best, but wasn't bad quality.
    I think the last one failed d7-9 (although I have no proof) so suggests that it made it further inside me than it might have done in a petri-dish, although we can't be sure it wouldn't have made it to blast otherwise. 
    Any thoughts / tips on implantation failure, I took preds, asprin, clexane and Intralipids.

    Offline Sunshine122

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    « Reply #1835 on: 24/01/19, 16:41 »
    Thanks for your advice re clexane, Iíve stopped it now but hope I havenít done any harm carrying it on so long. Glad to have one less injection, just the prontogest now, which is hurting alot! Iím still getting brown blood which I know is normal after such a big bleed but find it disconcerting. Iím wondering about booking another scan but donít want to get to obsessive with them. The midwife did say Iíll be seeing a consultant too as its an IVF pregnancy to discuss my meds etc, I know I wonít be able to cope a whole pregnancy with just the 2 NHS scans though (hoping things continue of course.)

    Klik, I agree, Iím definitely not going to tell a soul yet and will hopefully be able to keep it to myself until the 20 week scan if possible, if we even make it that far, although the midwife thought I may struggle as Iím pretty slim.

    Queenie, have you tried maybe having a scratch or the implantation cuts with Serum? It may be fluke but I had them done in September so it may have helped. What progesterone support were you using? Also I have only ever had luck with a blast transfer, although the day 3 transfers were actually better quality, again could just be a fluke. I hope your next cycle in Brno is the one. Iím 9 weeks along now, the sonographer didnít mention anything about the placenta, actually I canít see it on the scan photo either but then Iím no expert, I hope thats not a bad sign.

    Katkat, I think I would definitely get progesterone checked at transfer and probably again during the 2ww to be on the safe side if you often bleed before otd, its so hard to get an embryo to transfer and Iíve wasted a few embryos previously due to insufficient progesterone support.

    Shady, hope your colonoscopy went well xx

    Offline Helenbeau

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    « Reply #1836 on: 24/01/19, 18:20 »
    Sunshine, really pleased to hear things are ok. Itís so tough isnít it. Fingers crossed everything will be fine. Iím sure it will as it sounds like baby was happy wiggling away at last scan.

    Briss congratulations on being pupo. Everything crossed for you,

    Katkat, you can get your progesterone tested on transfer day. Iím sure I did once.

    Hi to everyone else.

    AFM so I had 5 follicles, I got 6 eggs (1 must have been a little one that popped up) and Iím super pleased that Iíve got 4 embryos. Letís see how they progress. Iím hoping I keep my track record of them all going to blast. These results are exactly the same as my first IVF nearly two years ago. It makes me more cross that Lister messed up so badly when I know that if I get mature eggs they will fertilise. Out if my 6 apparently one was immature and one didnít fertilise. Iíll have a day 5 transfer. Iím not up for a day 3 at all. If they donít make it to day 5 then I donít want a transfer, it just gives me the security that theyíve got that much further.
    So Iíll have been out here for 12 days by the time I fly back. Quite a stretch, but Iím happy with the results. Although Iím very aware that embryos donít equal babies!
    Randomly I did intralippids as it was offered to me...not sure if I should carry it on and if I should go for a higher dose of prednisolone as Penny keeps it low 🤔

    Offline katkat2014

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    « Reply #1837 on: 25/01/19, 10:34 »
    Weehey Helen, fab news! congratulations on this fantastic haul and may they continue to divide nicely. Did you do the scratch in the end? In regards to prednisone I guess it depends if there is a reason you need it. Have you had your NK cells tested before?

    Queenie, sorry I have no further input on implantation failure. It drives me crazy having had all these great embryos (incl 8-cells and blasts) transferred and none made a baby. What do Serum say - that it was chromosomal? I get this all the time but I cannot help but wonder if something else is at play. Your lining was ok?

    Wow klik this is a lot of progesterone testing! Actually, do you need to test the estrogen as well on a FET, do you know? I asked my clinic regarding the progesterone and ERA and my co-ordinator said it depends on the amount of days you took the progesterone for (ie I was receptive at 144 hrs +/- 3 hrs). So I start with the 3 x 200mg and then change to 2 x 400mg on ET day. If I get there. let's hope my lining plays ball, am nervous about it! If you didn't feel the need telling your family yet then perhaps just wait till the baby is there... :surprise, this is your new grand child  ;)

    Offline ShadyWheat

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    « Reply #1838 on: 25/01/19, 11:12 »
    Sunshine, I'm so so pleased and relieved that everything is ok. It sounded so scary! Agree with the others, taking clexane at this stage is probably not necessary. Also, in my first pregnancy, when I was on it, I had 3 big bleeds, and it seems that taking clexane + aspirin, plus the fact that for some unknown reason bleeding is more common in IVF pregnancies, was probably the explanation. Doesn't make it any easier to bear though. I very much hope it doesn't happen again and you get to your 13 week scan and can start to relax a little more.

    Helen, woo hoo, what a fab result! 4 embryos is wonderful, you certainly should get a few blasts from that. Have you decided how many you will transfer? I did intralipids with Dr Gorgy, it is a very expensive commitment if you keep doing it, not sure how many places in London you can go to to get it done. Personally I'm on the fence about the value of it, but I suppose it's worth throwing everything at it this time. Lister don't offer it though, only IVIG, which they have not recommended me to have done this time.

    MSJ, good to hear from you. Banking sounds like a great idea while you sort out everything else. I have big regrets I didn't think about doing it 2 years ago as I have faffed around and wasted so much time when I could have been collecting.

    Queenie, I'm so sorry, I also have no ideas. Have you thought about more extensive immune testing just to make sure - does Penny offer that? you could go for a consultation with Dr G but again, I'm not completely convinced by all the things he does and recommends. He will also be super expensive!

    Klik, I can completely understand your reluctance not to tell anyone. I think I probably wouldn't until the baby arrives (even my own parents, if that is at all possible!!!) I'm glad that nothing is happening in any case, no scares is very good news. I hope the rest of your pregnancy is calm and relaxing after all of this early drama!

    KatKat, I will just test progesterone levels on ET day. I asked Lister about it yesterday and that's what they standardly do, they don't test oestrogen as I guess if your lining got thick they assume that you responded ok? BTW, I completely got the days wrong, I was thinking they would do a blast transfer 5 days after my lining was ready, but its actually longer, because they go for another 2 days to account for the time that you would trigger and then do EC, so it's really 7-8 days!

    AFM, thanks for all your good wishes ladies. Colonscopy went really well, and KatKat although I was sedated I was awake so I also found it fascinating to look at my insides! They found no inflammation so I'm staying drug free for the forseeable which is a relief. I really think all these improvements in my health are down to changing job and removing all the stress that that job caused. I hadn't realised how awful it was until I stepped away. Lining got to 8.7 yesterday, which I think has never happened!!! So they've booked me in for ET end of next week, it's feeling more real now. I've decided to transfer 2, and then if this doesn't work I will do another 1-2 fresh cycles and save my last blast for another double transfer if I can hopefully get at least another.




    Offline chini

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    « Reply #1839 on: 25/01/19, 12:28 »
    Shady - thank you! I've been thinking about seeing an endometriosis/adenomyosis specialist to get a second opinion, thanks for recommending Dr Saridogan. Great to hear the colonoscopy went well and good luck with you cycle! Have you tried to keep the Crohn's in check with diet? One of my best friends has basically managed to vanish a very severe Crohn's with a special diet - I can ask her for the details if you're interested?

    Katkat - I absolutely agree with you! I'll be turning 40 in September and I'm sure my amh isn't increasing, so I think it would be best to do embryo banking asap and do transfers later when the uterus has had time to heal properly. My only concern is that the crazy amounts of Ibuprofen and Co-codamol I've taken during the last month might have a bad effect on my eggs, so maybe I should wait for 3 months until I have "fresh" eggs again?

    Helen - thank you! And congratulations on all the lovely eggs you collected - I'm keeping my fingers crossed for good growth : )

    Sunshine122 - I'm really sorry you had to go through such a scare and I'm so happy everything turned out to be ok in the end! Interestingly one of my best friends told me recently that she had bleeding all through both of her pregnancies (both were IVF babies and she had severe PCOS). However both kids were born at the right time and totally healthy so in the end it wasn't a problem - I hope this might help you.

    Klik - I'm so glad to hear the pregnancy is developing well, and thank you so much for sharing your experience! Funnily, I thought first that the bleeding and the pain was because I wasn't suppressed enough - i.e. that the pill hadn't stopped my own hormone production so my body was dealing with both my own and the synthetic hormones and was in some kind of overload of hormones... But what you say makes sense: if the pill completely stopped my own hormone production and the amount of hormones in my blood collapsed, my body must have thought it's time for my period. There's still something I don't understand though, as I thought the whole point of me going on the pill was to stop my own hormone production and thus give my uterus lining a rest from the monthly bombardment with estrogen (which flares up the adenomyosis) - i.e. I was put on the pill to treat the adeno. However it looks like this didn't work because my body wouldn't "accept" the message from the synthetic hormones, which were supposed to replace my own hormones? Or have I misunderstood and is the pill actually just meant to *lower* one's own hormone production, not to shut it down completely? Haha I thought I've read so much over the last half year but I've obviously still not read enough! My Dr now wants to put on Norethisterone after a 3-day break, so I guess the only way to find out the state of my ovaries is to do a blood test today before I start taking the Norethisterone this evening... (see below)

    MSJ - I'm sorry you suffer from this terrible condition too! That said, I hope you can get a better diagnosis soon! My adenomyosis was diagnosed with 3D ultrasound at the The Gynaecology Ultrasound Centre on Harley Street by Joel Naftalin - he's written articles based on his scientific studies about the diagnosis of adenomyosis using ultrasound, so I guess he's the go to guy if you can't get a referral to have an MRI. It's not cheap though at £290 per scan - I'm not sure about that though so better call them and double check if you want the accurate price. However he wasn't able to see exactly were the adenomyosis boundaries were, nor how deep it penetrates, so it wasn't a 'perfect' diagnosis either. Apparently those things are best seen in MRI anyway. Luckily I managed to get myself a referral to an MRI trough the NHS and am now waiting for the results. Oh and thanks for the link! I've read thousands and thousands of pages about adenomyosis and infertility since I got my diagnosis, and have probably read all open access scientific studies from the last 4 years, and what they basically all say is that the golden rule for IVF for adeno patients is to first down regulate with GnRHa (ideally for 3-6 months), then do long protocol. However as DOR such a long down regulation with GnRHa would be a massive risk for me (i.e. could put my ovaries into sleep forever), which is why my Dr wanted to put me first on a milder down regulation with the pill for 2-3 months, then just 2 weeks on GnRHa, and then long protocol. However she wasn't expecting me to react so badly to the pill, so I think that took her quite by surprise. Now she's put me on Norethisterone for the time being (starting tonight), with a view to continuing otherwise as planned. I'd like to know what do you mean by emerging fertility sparing treatment for adenomyosis? Do you mean the new surgery techniques that have been trialled in Japan? I think I'm super wary of going down the surgery route as the risks are massive and there's no guarantee of success... I'd rather try the medical route supported by diet, supplementary therapies and supplements. What protocol are you going to be doing in February?

    Briss - congratulations on being pupo! If I remember correctly you were doing your own bloods and scans in London - can I ask you at which lab/clinic? I'd like to check my hormone levels today and if possible get a baseline scan to see what the pill has done to my hormone levels and uterus.


    AFM - Finally got hold of my Dr and she told me to come off the pill and have 3 days in between, then start Norethisterone 3 times per day. I took the last pill Monday evening, and will start the Norethisterone today. Yesterday I had to take 3400mg ibuprofen and 3 x 15/500mg Co-Codamol, and today I was simply in too much pain to go to work. In addition, since this morning I've been having the most ridiculously heavy AF and am now lying on top of several towels in bed.

    To be honest I'm a bit wary about starting the progesterone almost back to back after the pill, even though I can see that the idea probably is that leaving only a short gap in between should help to avoid my own hormones waking up completely. Ideally I think I would have wanted to wait a couple of months to do a proper detox and get the pill completely out of my system, then start with a clean sheet (both literally and metaphorically speaking haha).

    I'm equally worried about the amount of painkillers I've taken during the last month - in total over 38000mg of ibuprofen, in average 1280mg per day, and some codeine too during the last week - and what that might have done to my eggs... Should I better wait for the 3 months that it takes to have new "fresh" eggs available, that wouldn't have been subject to this bombardment with painkillers?

    I'm also wondering if I should go today to test my hormone levels and do a baseline scan to see what the pill has actually done to my body...? Is there anywhere I could get this done with such a short notice and for a reasonable price? Blue Horizon charges £280 for progesterone + estrogen + FSH + LH + prolactin - do I need all this or would estrogen, FSH and progestrone be enough? Sadly I think if I can't do it today I guess later on it will be useless, as I start the Norethisterone tonight. Or should I just trust my Dr (which I'm finding increasingly difficult to do the more fertility treatments I do)?

    I'm also starting to get very inclined to do embryo batching and wonder whether Lister will let us do that - on our initial consultation they were quite clearly against it. I'm also thinking about going to see an adenomyosis/endometriosis/uterine environment specialist, and wondering if that should be Dr Saridogan or whether I should consider other alternatives...

    All and any help and comments would be much appreciated, as always. Have a lovely weekend! x