* Author Topic: Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6  (Read 125068 times)

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Offline katkat2014

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Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
« Reply #1840 on: 25/01/19, 13:30 »
Chini just a quick one - you need to take FSH, LH and estrogen. Perhaps call TDL The Doctors Laboratory, I think you can just turn up there and get results directly from them 4 hours later. I also heard of the Pathlab, but not sure if they send results to you or your clinic. I would do this test on days 2 or 3. Sorry you're having such a heavy AF! it may make sense to at least wait a couple of months to do an egg collection to get rid of all the toxins. Milk thistle tea helps cleanse the liver.

Shady, hooray to the great lining, this is fab!! What did you do to get to this point - just the 6mg of progynova orally? Fantastic news. I cannot even do yoga at the moment - when blood flow matters the most - because of my tennis elbow :/ (ironically you're supposed to do yoga to make it better, but I got my tennis elbow from doing yoga (and using the mouse too much) I think!). I didn't know that you'd wait 7 more days to do the ET, will this then be day 6 of taking progesterone?

AFM - bored at work! And so happy that the sun is shining  :)

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    Offline ShadyWheat

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    « Reply #1841 on: 25/01/19, 16:40 »
    KatKat, me too, I'm counting down time left at my desk today! Roll on the weekend. It's so nice and warm out today, also nice not to be wearing my duvet coat for once. This time, the only changes was I did a medicated - which I never did before. 6mg progynova, I'm taking 800mg Vit E, 75mg aspirin a day, and when I read Klik's advice, I also started taking 1g Vit C a day too. Acupuncture once a week. Plus, because its so cold and my circulation is so poor (and my husband is tight about the heating), at all times when I'm just sitting at home, I have a hot water bottle on my feet. I personally think that the running is really helping my circulation. I can believe that any form of exercise, like yoga too would help. It's a shame you are incapacitated - and that yoga did that to you! So ironic. Yes, I will be transferring on day 6 of progesterone (start taking on Sun and transfer on Fri)

    Chini, I tried a lot of extreme food exclusion diets 10 years ago before I was diagnosed. It was very difficult because I'm a vegetarian, and I felt even worse and nutritionally deficient and I couldn't really narrow it down to anything. So in the end, I decided to go for the medication route (also because I'm a pig, and eating and cooking are one of my greatest pleasures in life!) But it's great it worked for your friend. One of my good friends is having real problems with IBS and she is doing FODMAPs at the moment. When she came to stay, it was a real nightmare to cater for her! yup, Lister are really not very supportive of embryo batching, but at the end of the day, you are paying and if you say you want to do it, they do have the 3 cycle package. They don't like to tell people about it though, but Tily and Gill both did it. Personally I wouldn't wait 3 mths, because you don't know what effect the painkillers may or may not have had. Maybe try one cycle in 2 months, gives you some time to clear things out of your system, and see how quality looks and then decide whether to do the other batching ones after that?

    Have a good weekend ladies xxx

    Offline Lottsy

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    « Reply #1842 on: 25/01/19, 21:02 »
    Oh wow! This is a busy thread! I donít think I will be able to catch up on all the conversation any time soon so will just introduce myself for now if thatís ok? And please let me know if I should be posting elsewhere as Iím not all that great with this.

    Iíve just had an NHS funded long protocol ICSI cycle at Guys where they collected 3 eggs from 4 follicles. Unfortunately one of them failed immediately after ICSI and the other two didnít fertilise overnight so Iím having to start over again.
    Although we both found the staff to be pleasant enough, it certainly feels like we have been on what I affectionately call a Ďpoverty packageí and we were just put on a treatment plan with little monitoring or personalisation.
    I have a low AMH and DP sperm is a little low but my biggest concern is egg quality now.
    We are fortunate enough to have two NHS funded rounds and were invited straight back in two days after EC to speak to a doctor about what happened. She has suggested going for a short protocol with more stims (Gonal and Menopur) in a couple of months.

    I still feel like Iím getting to grips with all this IVF stuff as there is so much to learn! But wondering what tips anyone might have to improve egg and sperm quality. Also, do you think having another round at Guys is worthwhile or should we be looking to try a private clinic and who would you recommend? Donít want to waste my preschools eggies :-)

    Thanks and I will start catching up on the other 1844 posts

    Good luck and best wishes to everyone here xxx


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    Offline Poppy1981

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    « Reply #1843 on: 25/01/19, 22:08 »
    Hi Lottsy and everyone else, I hope you donít mind me joining the thread too - definitely a lot to catch up on!

    Lottsy you already know because we spoke on the other thread that I had a failed cycle at Guys like you. I had 11 follicles at baseline then but they only got 4 eggs - the main reason, Iím guessing, is that they overmatured my larger follicles, as they told me to stim another day when my larger follicles were already at 22mm. Now Iím down to AFC of 6 - yes, they reduced very quickly - and I wouldnít want to go back, two main reasons - that there was no monitoring, (not a single blood test and no scans until day 8) and that they were so Ďliberalí with follicle sizes. I think their treatment may work for people with different problems but with low AMH every follicle is super important! I agree with you though, the nurses and other staff were very nice. Can you choose a different clinic for your second NHS cycle? If so, I would suggest looking into CRGH, I think they take some NHS patients and their success rates are some of the best in the country.

    Everyone else, good luck with whichever stages of your cycles you are, Iíll try to familiarise myself with your stories and hope I can be useful with the little experience and knowledge that I have xxx


    Offline Babyhopeful

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    « Reply #1844 on: 26/01/19, 11:14 »
    Klik - They checked my urine for pregnancy hormones about 10 days ago at the hospital and it came back negative, so I definitely think the pregnancy hormones have come out of my system. The shedding has slowed down though which is a relief. It is difficult to know when to tell people. If Iím lucky enough to get pregnant again I really donít want to tell my in laws as my mother in-law reacted really badly when I lost the baby and I ended up consoling her rather than the other way around! On the other hand my parents and close friends have been brilliant and Iím actually really glad I told them.

    Blue Dolphin- Thank you for the kind words. I have thought about immune testing, but as I was already on clexane, prednisolone and aspirin, apart from intralipids I donít think thereís much more I can take. The clinic have agreed to increase my prednisolone to 20mg for the next round, but my current consultant and an independent consultant think that the problem with the fetus was genetic. Iím inclined to agree that it was both bad luck and genetics.

    Katkat - Iím sorry to hear youíve got tennis elbow. My clinic advise against transfer a good quality embryo with a poor quality one just in case the body tries to get rid of them both when thereís nothing wrong with the good one. I had early bleeding on my first cycle, so now I take 400mg of cyclogest 2 x daily and 1x vial of lubion. This combination seems to do the trick. I also make sure I use the cyclogest exactly 12 hours apart so my progesterone levels have no chance of dropping.

    Queenie123- Iím so sorry to hear about your results. Iím sending you lots of hugs xxx The last two rounds Iíve taken 200mcg of selenium from EC onwards. Apparently selenium is really good for implantation (thereís an interesting study on mice), although donít take it before EC as it can compromise egg quality.

    Nov12 - If you donít mind me asking which Create clinic did you use? Iíve been thinking about having treatment with them for some time.

    Chini - I had terrible problems with a pill I took in my twenties which was similar to Yasmin. I constantly bled and felt very miserable on it. The GP was baffled as to why I was constantly bleeding and I demanded to go back on microgynon in the end despite it giving me headaches.  A bit of a detox sounds a good idea at the moment. My clinic were against embryo batching initially, but they now seem to have relented.

    Shadywheat- The kindness of others has really helped to keep me going over the last few weeks. Thank you for the information about your cycles after your miscarriage. The waiting for either af or ovulation is really getting me down at the moment as thereís no sign of either. Iím pleased to hear youíre lining is looking good and youíve had the all clear from the colonoscopy. It must be a relief to know you donít need the meds at the mo.

    Helenbeau- Thank you for the information. I was shedding a worrying amount of hair, but it is now slowing down. Iím so happy to hear that you got 4 embryos, what a difference from your last treatment cycle! Iíll keep my fingers crossed that they continue growing strong.

    Sunshine122- Iím really pleased that your little one is doing well. The bleeding must have been a massive shock, but it sounds like it is resolving itself. Iíve heard that itís very common for Ivf ladies to bleed during pregnancy. I think itís something to do with our lining being extra thick due to all the meds.

    Briss - Itís great to hear that youíve got a lovely embryo on board. It must be such a relief to get to transfer this time. Iím keeping everything crossed for you x

    Lottsy - Welcome! For egg quality Iím on 300mg of ubiquinol daily, which I increase to 600mg when stimming. Iím also on DHEA 3x25mg per day. With the DHEA I would only take this if you know you have low testosterone. I found the NHS to be one size fits all and unfortunately didnít have a good experience at the clinic I was treated at.

    Poppy1981 - Welcome!

    Afm - Work has been very busy this week and Iíve been working longer hours. Unfortunately, Iím back on antibiotics :( My swab results indicated a very mild infection, so I had to go back to the hospital Monday evening to pick up my prescription. Thereís no sign of ovulation, but in a way this is a good thing as bding is out until I finish the antibiotics. My skin has massively improved, although this could be the antibiotics and the hair shedding has slowed. I had a big wobble this week around whether I want to do anymore ivf. The thought of starting again from scratch is really daunting, but then I will always regret not trying again. DH is keen to keep going, so Iíll do the next round as soon as I can and decide from there.

    Offline Briss

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    « Reply #1845 on: 26/01/19, 11:17 »
    It's s BFN :( I'm crushed... to lose a job and have a failed cycle all in one go is just too much. Trying to work full time and go through monthly egg collections was bad enough but negotiating redundancy +looking for a job + ivf how am I going to bear this?? I don't even have time to grieve properly as need to become an expert in structured finance over the weekend I have an interview lined up next week. Am really struggling.  I don't believe it was egg quality whatever you say there is something else.  I started cramping the next day ET, unmistakable cramping and I have it after most transfers.  I didn't have anything like this before pregnancy.  My af type cramping would start around a week after day 2 transfer and will be followed by a bfp. This time around it's virtually immediately after transfer for about a week and then it goes down followed by bfn.  What's this??? I thought it was caused by BF but I stopped 10 months ago and nothing changed I still cramp after ET. Something is happening in there that does not allow implantation. My immunes (before pregnancy) were OK, thyroid is fine, lining looks good. I did teo scans with Dr jurkovic after pregnancy and he found everything in order. Blood pressure? I can't believe slightly raised BP could prevent implantation. No point asking medical profession, they are just going to blame the eggs.


    While still being traumatised I can't not to share my recent find - an anti diet book. It's called "gene eating " i cant recomend it enough its an eye opener! How much we put on weight is so dependant on our gene mutations you just can't fight thousands of years of natural selection.  He explained it so well why some people simply can't stop eating. I must have different mutations because I never understood it I'm not generally a hungry person but it changes when I try to lose weight.  I can now understand how it works.  Our genetics setting is designed to hold on to fat for survival because food is not always available. Useful tool but oh so damaging in our suddenly changed environment of plenty. We are not made for the plenty. When even a small amount of fat is disappearing your brain will fight to get it back.  I know that because when I diet my main problem is being constantly hungry. And that's not because I eat less (I don't normally eat much anyway) it's because my body is losing fat and my brain sees is as a threat to my survival. It will force me to eat and if that failes the body will adopt to survive on less so end up living on salad leaves and yet not losing any weight- happened to me. That's why it's virtually impossible to lose weight permanently- your brain will fight for its dear life to get the fat back. You cannot win that fight not easily.  It's all fascinating.  He also goes on to address all kinds of "free of" gluten dairy etc you name it. I never understood why people suddenly decided that milk is evil. And I was right .apparently while we were not originally designed to drink milk beyond infancy , we adopted.  Thousand of years of natural selection and vu'a la we are perfectly able to digest dairy. When i say "we" I mean western world.  Apparently Asia and Africa went the other way and never developed these mutations so most Chinese for example are lactose intolerant.  It's fascinating isn't it? He also totally destroyed the alkaline eating movement- something I was impartial to at one point and now it just seems rather silly. With this newly acquired acknowledge I'm going to hit the gym. After all our bodies were designed to be far more active than we are today. But coffee first! I missed the stuff

    Sorry again for lack of personals I'll definitely catch up with your updates ladies next week once I'm officially on garden leave...

    Offline Sunshine122

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    « Reply #1846 on: 26/01/19, 14:24 »
    Helen, well done on your results so far, how many are you hoping to put back? This just goes to show what a difference various protocols/clinic monitoring can make.

    Shady, great news re the colonoscopy, its amazing what removing stress from your life can do, and great that you can stay drug free for now.

    Babyhopeful, sorry that you are back on the antibiotics, it all seems so unfair doesnít it. I can understand you having a wobble about carrying on, its all so disheartening, am I right that you still have a frostie though? Sorry if Iíve got that wrong.

    Briss, sorry for your bfn. If you are cramping it may be that your body is rejecting the embryo before it even has a chance to implant, could you get immumes tested or take prednisolone just in case?

    Klik, hope you are doing well.

    Hello and welcome to the newbies!!

    Afm, still feeling pretty down whenever I go to the toilet and wipe brown esp as there are lots of little clotty bits in it (so sorry, TMI). My DH is so positive about it all but its impossible not to think the worst! Also had the appointment for my NHS nuchal scan but I will only be 10 + 3 which I think is too early, my notes say gestation unknown! Although Iíve told them my dates at the booking appt, Iíve even had a previous scan at the EPU. xx

    Offline Poppy1981

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    « Reply #1847 on: 26/01/19, 19:35 »
    Hello all,

    And thank you for the welcomes, this is a lovely thread!

    Just wanted to say to Briss - sorry for your BFN, I know exactly how you feel as I was in the same situation just a over month ago. I was at risk at redundancy and had to go to a job interview the day after I found out our cycle had failed, also that was right before Christmas. How did I find strength for that interview day, I honestly donít know but I managed to get the job and focussing on that actually helped me distract my thoughts from the bfn for a while. Great to hear that you found an interesting book to distract you a bit, it sounds interesting and Iíll look it up. Did you do a full immunes test recently? I hear immunes can change from cycle to cycle, what you describe does sound like an immune reaction to me xxx

    Hi to Babyhopeful, Sunshine, Lottsy and everyone else - I promise I will soon learn more names!

    Afm, I am a little frustrated as Iím waiting for my immune results from ARGC which I know came back on Tuesday - but I still havenít received a call about them. The reception assured me on Friday that they will definitely be reviewed by Mr T on Monday and I will get a call on Monday afternoon but of course it means Iím kept guessing and unable to plan - as if the results are good I could start the cycle end of next week, and if not, well I donít even want to think about it, but I know with Humira it can be months of waiting.

    Offline Helenbeau

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    « Reply #1848 on: 26/01/19, 20:56 »
    Shady, yayyy amazing news about the lining. Keep up the good work lining! Hopefully youíll be transferring soon. X

    Babyhopeful, so sorry youíre having doubts. Totally normal. I really really think you should give yourself time and not think about it for a bit. Try do some fun un-fertility related stuff. I was meant to start my cycle in November and I just felt overwhelmed and cancelled it. I think Iím someways I was lucky that I was working out in Budapest as it made things feel a bit different. Iím really glad I did postpone though because somehow I got my head together and I feel so much better now. You will too and youíll be able to think more clearly in time. Itís early days since your MC so be patient with your body and M.I. d and trust they will heal and you will be feeling more hopeful and confident again soon.

    Briss, so sorry for your bfn. It just sucks. Youíre going through a lot all at the same time. Try and give yourself some time off. Iím sure youíre right if you suspect your cramping means something isnít right but fwiw Iíve always had a lot of cramping too. Are you already taking all the immune protocol drugs? As for your diet thing the best Iíve ever felt was when I was on the blood group diet. It must be fairly similar to the genes thing I guess. And yes I knew about the milk thing too, weíve been drinking milk for long enough that our bodies adapted a long time ago. However I try to avoid cows dairy and Iíve stuck to goats diary for the past 6 years or so as itís easier to digest and Iíve got quite delicate digestion.

    Hi newbies, Iíll catch up with your stories soon Iím sure.

    Afm. Day three update and I have 3x 8 cell grade 1 and 1x 5 cell grade 2. So Iím hoping the 3 grade 1ís are pretty safe bets and not sure about this 5 cell. Anyone know if thatís really bad or has experience of this?
    Iíve been out on a few meet ups with other Serum women and itís been fun. Had a couple of glasses of wine too. Itís definitely the most relaxed Iíve felt during a cycle. Iím wondering if thatís because Iím very open to donor eggs now so itís taken some pressure off. I also feel justified that I was so peed off with the Lister as I knew they made a huge mess of my cycle and I could do better.
    Now I have to choose how many to put back? Iíve no idea? Two of the best ones? Is it not good to put one good one and one less good back together?
    My mum sent a very sweet email today to tell me not to worry if I got twins being single because sheíd buy a bigger house and we could all live there. Live in nanny 😂

    Offline chini

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    « Reply #1849 on: 27/01/19, 13:04 »
    KatKat - thanks for the info regarding the tests I needed. I got the tests done on Friday at the Pathlab and a scan at the Birth Company. And thanks for recommending milk thistle! I was taking it every day since I started on the pill, but recently stopped as I learned it's estrogenic, so for us adenomyosis/endometriosis people it's better to take dandelion root tea to support the liver.

    Shady - I know what you mean by exclusion diets being tricky for vegetarians as I haven't eaten any meat since 1996... And eating and cooking are also my favourite hobbies! It helps that I eat fish and eggs, but still I need to think so much more carefully about my diet than someone who eats meat so I totally know that it's a huge challenge and understand if you feel it's not for you. Thanks also for sharing the info about the Lister 3 cycle embryo batching package! I will put that forward to Dr Parikh on our next consultation.

    Lottsy - welcome! I had a failed cycle at the NHS last year, later it turned out because they failed to diagnose my adenomyosis so put me on the worst possible protocol for adenomyosis sufferers... Also waisted crazy amounts of time with them as they were so slow at every stage. Maybe you could look into transferring to a private clinic that takes NHS patients but is specialised in DOR women for your next cycle, such as CRGH or Lister? Also, are you and your partner taking any supplements for egg/sperm quality?

    Poppy1981 - welcome! Your NHS story sounds quite a lot like mine. I have consistently good AFC:s and when I started my cycle it was 14, but they managed to only get 2 eggs at Hammersmith Hospital. Later it turned out they had failed to diagnose I had adenomyosis and had put me on the worst possible protocol for adenomyosis sufferers... I've noticed though that the AFC varies - I've had different scans with different results between 8 and 14, and I do think diet, supplements and general health can have quite a massive effect on it. So you may well get higher numbers again in future cycles - fingers crossed!

    Babyhopeful - I had actually given up the pill in 2009 mainly because it makes me depressed, so was quite worried about the mental health effects this time... During my teens and my twenties I went through a variety of different brands and methods including the patch and the ring, but always had a little bit of breakthrough bleeding - however never anything quite like this. I need to say though that before the 17 days on Yasmin I was on Microgynon for 42 days, bleeding the whole time, and the bleeding was actually the reason why I was put on Yasmin, to see if a slightly stronger pill would stop it... I hope your infection clears out soon! It sounds to me that it might be good to take some time to think how you want to move forward... And focus on self-care as much as you can. I'm sending you a big hug!

    Briss - I'm so sorry it's a bfn! And with everything you're going through! I really hope this interview tomorrow goes well and might give you a chance to think about other things! But also try to take time off for yourself when you can and be gentle on yourself. As the others have said, I would also try to look more closely into what's going on with the cramping. Maybe look into immunes again? Or see a uterine environment specialist? Also fascinating what you say about the diet book, and totally makes sense. However I've also read that Europeans are mainly a mixture of the gene mutation that has adapted to milk (mainly in northern Europe) and who haven't (mainly in the south of Europe), and as people in the UK are quite mixed with both Norman and Roman invasions etc. I guess the population here would be quite mixed in that respect. Also from the point of view of inflammatory conditions like adenomyosis it's been established that milk can exacerbate inflammation, so for some of us it might still be necessary to keep away from it - at least cow's milk. And then of course there are all the medications and antibiotics that are given to the poor cows in the current industrial farming system which can't be good for us, so I do think that if one is to drink milk it's best to drink organic milk. I think nutrition is one of these areas which have been incredibly overlooked by mainstream medicine and in which we still have so much to learn, it's absolutely fascinating!

    Sunshine - I understand you might feel the need to psychologically prepare yourself for bad news, but please don't fall into despair and remember the story of my friend who bled from start to finish of her both pregnancies but had two amazingly healthy kids in the end, so it doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!

    Helenbeau - I'm sorry I can't help you with how many to put back as I will never be able to put back more than one, but congratulations on having such a luxury problem! : ) And also super lovely what your mum said, it's great to know you're supported like that!


    AFM, I had a baseline scan and blood tests done on Friday. The scan was £120 at The Birth Company, and FSH + LH + estrogen were £105 at the Pathlab as she didn't charge me the test fee, so apparently you can buy peace of mind and it costs £225... The scan showed a very thin lining of 3.3mm and an AFC of 14, and the bloods were FSH 6.3 mlU/ml, LH 0.4 mlU/ml and oestradiol 74 pmol/L. The numbers are low, but then again I guess that's exactly what the pill was supposed to do, i.e. to suppress my hormones? However I've got no idea whether that means I'm overssuppressed, so if anyone can help interpret the numbers I would greatly appreciate all help.

    The good news however is that since I started taking the Norethisterone on Friday evening my pain are gone. I'm still bleeding like during a period, but I hope that will ease out in a couple of days.

    The bad news is that all this has left my DP totally convinced that we won't be able to have children, and he's in a really sombre mood. We had a long chat yesterday during which he said that he feels that even if I were to become pregnant, "which already would be a miracle", he feels the baby would have no chance to grow inside my womb as "it's such an angry environment", and that he feels that my body is just "not set up to have a baby". I try to feel happy that he was able confide in me to share these obviously very difficult feelings, but still it was so hard for me to listen to him talk like that about my body - like he's lost all hope in it. And I did tell him that I feel it's crucial for me not to lose hope in my body's capacity to heal and to hold a pregnancy, and that even if he can't believe in it I will. Still, I feel devastated after that conversation, and the things he said about my body and my womb keep going in circles in my head... I guess it comes down to a bigger difference between us that I'm a die-hard optimist and he's a pessimist. But how to navigate that in practice while going through IVF together is what worries me...