* Author Topic: Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6  (Read 125065 times)

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Offline klik

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Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
« Reply #1850 on: 27/01/19, 19:37 »
queenie: thanks! Brno sounds like a plan... I'm into prednisolone, personally, as the only implantation I ever had with IVF, I was on it. As for aspirin, Dr Ozturk once told me there's a small negative correlation between aspirin and implantation (though once the pregnancy is established, baby aspirin helps avoid preeclampsia later on). As for the rest, I really don't know... The studies I've seen seem pretty inconclusive...

Sunshine: thanks! I understand you feeling down when you see the brown blood and clots... To me it really helped that the doctors told me to expect exactly that. Almost as if, if I didn't see that, something would be wrong... Re. when to tell people, personally I found that I didn't even quite make it to 16 weeks--and I'm definitely not slim! But it depends on how eagle-eyed the people around you are. One colleague spotted it at 15w6d, which fortunately is when I announced it to that group anyway...

Helen: that's a good haul! The 5-cell could make it, but the 8-cells are indeed more promising... As for how many to transfer, as I understand it, this is the last retrieval for you... As you're going with blasts anyway, I'd transfer one by one. There's some inconclusive evidence that if the uterus rejects a bad embryo, a good embryo may be rejected as well in the process... And anyway I personally believe that our endometrial receptivity naturally varies from month to month, so spreading your chances a bit makes some sense to me. But if you really just want to put this all behind you, then transfer two (if you've got them) so you can move on faster... It's really whatever feels right to you. I'm really glad you're having a good time in Greece!!!

katkat: lol re. not telling the would-be grandparents til the baby's born! For better or worse, they already know... my observation is that oestrogen is not tested in the UK, but it's tested by some clinics in the US. It's not clear to me what role oestrogen plays in early pregnancy (well, it helps regulate progesterone production, but we're taking progesterone artificially anyway so I'm not sure how important it still is). Later in pregnancy oestrogen is very important--some really mean scientists suppressed some pregnant baboons' oestrogen production and many of them miscarried. Supplementing with artificial oestrogen reversed the effects for a second group. Anyway, I'm consulting with Dr March, who cleared out the last of my adhesions (hopefully) in California, and I told him my oestrogen levels were really low at the beginning of my pregnancy. He advised me to use two patches and had me re-test it until he was sure I was meeting the minimum levels for a first-trimester pregnancy (reference range is here: https://www.babymed.com/laboratory-values/estrogen-estradiol-levels-during-pregnancy ) -- so you could test your levels and make sure they're more than the minimum for the first trimester, and if they aren't then just take some more...

Shady: thanks! I'm ecstatic that your colonoscopy went so well and that you can leave all that medication behind you! Long may it continue! You must be so relieved... That's great news ramping up to your transfer in a few days! Good luck!!!

chini: thanks! I'm not sure whether the pill is supposed to shut your hormones down completely or just suppress them, but I was trying to say that in my case, the hormone suppression was too much... The oestrogen was low enough that I started bleeding very early, around mid-cycle. And then my ovaries were shut down for 45 days or so. But your case does seem different--you have a good number of antral follicles, so hopefully your ovaries are not shut down and will be able to grown some of those follicles when you're ready to try... Re. your DP's attitude, I had a somewhat similar experience with mine, but not as extreme, nor so early in the process. My DP had been utterly steadfast, but at one point he'd really had enough... And he started talking about surrogacy, not as a way to bypass my potentially problematic uterus (I'd had adhesions, after all), but as a way to accelerate the process and go through the frozen embryos faster (so the surrogate and I would have transfers simultaneously). It felt like a massive betrayal--like he didn't believe in me anymore, and just wanted to get through those embryos as fast as possible so we could get to DE, which would be faster and more effective. What happened next doesn't matter--I just wanted to commiserate with you... It's terrible when this type of conflict materialises, because both sides have a point. He just wants it to stop, you want to give yourself a proper chance... It'll take some compromising--hopefully you can come up with a plan that you're both ok with, and he'll be able to find some more patience and hope from somewhere inside him, and you'll be able to reassure him that this pursuit won't last forever... Good luck--it's really really tough...

Lottsy: welcome! Gosh, yeah, DOR and the NHS don't mix very well, much of the time, unfortunately... Many DOR women do do better with short protocol, so that's a plus... But if it is possible to use CRGH instead, I think I'd do that (my personal recommendation is to try to have Dr Ozturk as your consultant). I think that wouldn't be a waste of time. I think Guy's is actually supposed to be good, but just not very DOR-friendly. I'm actually kind of encouraged that they're taking short protocol seriously. Without any personal experience of them, though, I don't know how to rate them. I don't know if you can, but maybe ask your doc to monitor you more closely? The first round in almost any clinic is often kind of used to calibrate your subsequent rounds--then they know you better and adapt to you better. Maybe Guy's can do that? I really don't know...

Poppy: welcome! Good luck tomorrow--I really really hope they don't recommend Humira for you! Hopefully you'll be able to get the all-clear on immunes and move on to a good cycle ASAP!

Babyhopeful: ugh, I'm sorry you ended up having to console your MIL... That's exactly what I'm afraid of when telling people... I guess the good thing is, you know who reacts how now, and you can choose whom to tell when next time. If disaster strikes again (hopefully not), it's useful to have someone who is ready to comfort you, while keeping others in the dark while you mourn... But hopefully your experience will be more of having this conundrum where your pregnancy just keeps on ticking along and you keep asking yourself when it's safe to actually tell! I'm really sorry you've got an infection still/again... Antibiotics are sometimes helpful for fertility, apparently, so who knows--hopefully, hopefully, your body will bounce right back and your next cycle will finally be a good one...

Briss: I'm so sorry... It did look very promising... Oh, no, everything at once--best of luck on your interview... So much to process... Re. your post-transfer cramps, I can think of three things: immunes, which others have mentioned; progesterone levels, as progesterone has an anti-cramping, calming effect on the uterus; and there being something in your uterus that Dr Jurkovic can't see. The problem is that immunes and the uterus are a bit "how long is a piece of string," in that you can investigate for the rest of your life, probably... Still, I think in your place I might go to Mr Saridogan or Mr Lower for an exploratory hysteroscopy, or if that sounds deeply unattractive, maybe to Mr Trew for a hysterosalpingogram... Dr Jurkovic did not catch my adhesions, but the HSG did, as did the hysteroscopies... As for immunes, I'd be tempted to just throw in some prednisolone, personally, but that may be wildly irresponsible of me... And as for progesterone, I'd up the dosage, to be on the safe side... I think you prefer as little intervention as possible, though, so maybe all of this sounds deeply unattractive to you... Interesting re. the diet book, and well done on your renewed exercise zeal!


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    Offline Helenbeau

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1851 on: 28/01/19, 11:04 »
    Hi ladies,
    So two of my four embryos didnít make it. So glad I didnít have a day 3 transfer. The 2 which did were AA, excellent looking apparently and a BB with 15% fragmentation both inside and out. Had them both put back. All my optimism has flown out of the window. I think just havingvtrabafer and starting tww brings back too many bad memories. Anyway, Iíve been prescribed clexane and baby aspirin. Not sure if I should take the aspirin. What does anyone know about this? Xx

    Offline chini

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    « Reply #1852 on: 28/01/19, 11:13 »
    Just a quick one for you Helen - I'm really sorry you feel that way but hang on there, with two embies there's till hope! Regarding the baby aspirin, the idea is that it thins the blood so it improves blood flow in the body, including the uterus, which can be crucial for implantation. It's safe and lots of women take it, so if I were you I'd go ahead and try it - it might make a difference and even if it doesn't there's nothing to lose. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for your embryos!

    Offline Helenbeau

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    « Reply #1853 on: 28/01/19, 13:28 »
    Thanks Chini, yeah I know the reasoning behind the aspirin but Iím already on clexane and that does the same thing. I remember discussion in here before about baby aspirin and I think some women donít recommend it. I think Klik had been told something by her Dr.
    My progesterone is 70. Is that ok. I keep reading something on google (haha) that if itís over 20 it can be detrimental 🤷🏻‍♀️ Not heard that before.
    Serum did make a big mistake...just before transfer I had to sign a consent form. It had my ex partners name in it too! Wtf! It took me by surprise and I had to say (after being in and out if that clinic fit the past 12 days) Iím single and that is my ex Iíve used donor sperm. They had to go back and make another consent form. My part we had never been to Serum, they can only have his name as I made my first enquiry with them 3 years ago but we went to Reprifit instead. Itís made me feel quite depressed.

    Offline Sunshine122

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    « Reply #1854 on: 28/01/19, 13:48 »
    Helen, please donít feel depressed, you have two fab embies on board!! Everyone seems to make these mistakes, my notes came through from my booking appt saying Iím  single even though DH was with me! He wasnít best pleased, bless him. Personally I didnít take aspirin, just the clexane, based on what Klik had mentioned. Wishing you all the luck. When are you flying home?

    Offline Helenbeau

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    « Reply #1855 on: 28/01/19, 13:58 »
    Thanks sunshine, haha thatís funny they made the opposite mistake, itís just a bit more awkward or at least I feel a bit more awkward having to say Iím single. These mistakes are made, I know itís not personal. Iím sure Iíll feel fine, I think itís just the end of a long slog being out here alone for 12 days. Iím flying back tomorrow and have to work Wednesday which now Iím quite pleased about. Hope youíre feeling ok xxx

    Offline katkat2014

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1856 on: 28/01/19, 14:17 »
    Helen congrats! 2 is great news! Dr Brosens in Coventry isn't keen on aspirin either. What a mess with the forms. I wonder if he'd have any rights if you had overlooked this!

    Briss am really sorry that you have to deal with all this at the same time. I've always had the same reply: it's chromosomal! With all my failed 8 cells and blasts :( I just really don't know what else you could test. On the other hand one of helen's 8 cells also didn't make a blast (and one of mine didn't either) so it could well be it's the chromosomes. Sometimes it fails early on, sometimes after a week or weeks later.

    Klik thanks regarsing reply about estrogen!

    Shady thanks also for all the info about the lining.

    Afm does it matter if you start the estrogen too early for transfer? Basically I had the implantation cuts on Monday day 22 followed by spotting which then stopped. But on Friday day 26 I started light bleeding and the clinic said I should start estrogen the next day. So I've been taking estrogen for 3 days now but today is the first day I have a proper bleed! According to my calendar today should be day 1 of my cycle.  ^idiot^  they want me to do a scan on day 11 but that is in 7 days time and I currentlyt have a proper period. I cannot imagine my lining being particularly thick then. Should I push back and move it 2 days later? So that would be after about 11.5 days of taking estrogen. It will either be day 13 or day 10 of my cycle depending which day you count as day 1!  My only worry is if it's later and then it's still thin will there be enough time to thicken it. Is it essential to transfer within a particular time frame like the latest by day 21, or does it not matter if you only transfer on say day 23 or 25 or even 27? I don't understand why the clinic already gave a transfer day. I don't do DE so does it really matter?

    Offline ShadyWheat

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    « Reply #1857 on: 28/01/19, 15:48 »
    Helen, congratulations on being PUPO! 2 good quality blasts is really positive, but I understand how you are little disappointed given your previous rate of going to blast, but this is still very consistent with the average. I have everything crossed for you, have a very strong feeling that this is going to be it for you (and maybe even twins! That happened to a single friend of mine, two beautiful little boys born last year through IVF). That is just lovely what your mum said, it brought a lump to my throat. I know if my family could do anything to help me get there on this journey they would do the same. I am taking aspirin and clexane on Lister's advice. I was aspirin from the start of the cycle and have been for the last few months of trying naturally because of my poor lining and circulation, so I think they are just doing everything possible. I am very prepared that if by some miracle I do get pregnant again, I will most probably bleed early again. If I do, I'll stop taking them. Have a good trip back and hope those embies nestle in nicely xxx

    KatKat, are you downregging using something like synarel or busrelin or just taking oestrogen to suppress your cycle for the medicated FET? I think if you're taking oestrogen this early in the cycle, it will suppress follicle growth regardless of whether you started day 1 or day 3, and you'll be ready for transfer whenever your lining is ready. I don't really understand why they scheduled ET for you already, how can they do that without knowing how fast your lining is growing??? From this one cycle I'm doing (so please bear in mind I'm no expert), I don't think it's necessary to transfer within a certain time frame for a medicated FET, I'll be transferring CD24 if all goes to plan....as far as I understand it, it's the time you flip over to the progesterone after your lining is ready is when the clock starts ticking.

    Briss, I'm so deeply sorry that this was a BFN for you. xxx Goodness what a pile of crap for you at the moment with the redundancy too, I'm not surprised you're feeling overwhelmed. I hope your interview goes well this week. I have confidence in your strength that you will find a way through. Look at the way you juggled IVF every month and working this past year, you definitely have reserves of resilience that will take you through. Is this the Giles Yeo book that you mentioned? I read some reviews of it and it sounded great! Makes a lot of sense, everybody has a different genome and in this era of personalised medicine for other diseases like cancer, of course the same would apply to obesity and related conditions. I always laugh about the non-lactose rubbish people come out with too - of course we adapted!!!

    Klik - thank you! Now like Helen, because it's really happening I feel incredibly nervous and quite negative actually. Just have to keep the balance and next steps in mind to stay sane!

    Sunshine, sorry that you are feeling down. It really is incredibly unsettling to go to the toilet and see blood, even though you can rationalise you knew what caused it, it still doesn't feel right and I got quite obsessive about it when it happened to me. The fact that it's brown though is good, means its all healing up and just the old blood from the bleed coming out. I really hope that the nuchal scan goes well and that you can have some reassurance at that point.

    Babyhopeful, oh that is so hard about your having to console your MIL. I'm so very sorry. That's why I didn't tell any of our families apart from my sister. Selfishly, I could only deal with my grief, and couldn't bear to feel responsible for dealing with other people's heartbreak too. I think its quite natural to have a wobble about starting treatment again and whether you can bear it.  And your MC is still very recent so please be kind to yourself if you are feeling this way and need more time to regather strength and make decisions. You aren't starting from scratch either, you have one great quality blast in the freezer, which is something that can take rounds and rounds to achieve.

    Chini, I'm so sorry about the conversations with your DP. It is so hard when one of you wants to go one way and the other another. We actually have the opposite scenario where I have lost faith in my body, and my DH is happy to keep on going for as long as we need to, but I'm just desperate for him to have the opportunity to be a parent very soon, and it doesn't need to be my child. He doesn't really become involved in all the hospital visits and test results so I don't think he completely appreciates how hopeless it is and is an optimist! But it would be incredibly hurtful to hear that someone else thinks your body is broken, I think you just need to convince him that it's worth exploring all these options while you still have time and are producing eggs, so that you don't look back in 10 years time and wish that you had looked at everything. Regret is the worst. That's what we decided, against the short term 'gain' of having a child through DE or adoption right now. There are ups and downs in this process, but I can honestly look at our relationship now and its so much stronger than it was 5 years ago when we started trying for a child. So that is a silver lining in this whole horrible journey.

    Poppy, Lottsy welcome to the thread!

    Poppy, I hope ARGC got back with your results today and that you don't have to have Humira. It really helps once you can start putting some concrete timelines down and planning the next steps rather than just waiting endlessly. You will certainly be well monitored at ARGC. AFC can vary a lot from month to month so please don't feel that your decline is inevitable, I have had variance between 3-15 follicles, but I can never get very many recruited and growing on stimms.

    Lottsy, I would use your last NHS cycle, lots of us would love to have got funding! As Poppy and Klik suggested, if you can get switched to CRGH, I would definitely do that. They have got much more experience in DOR and developed mild protocols that may work better for you than pushing with high levels of drugs. Also do remember that the first cycle is very much a trial to start to understand what works for you and what doesn't. you might have to try a few different protocols to get something that works for your body. Lots of us on this thread have found that high doses of stimms did not equal more eggs, and in some cases diminished quality. In my case, I have had much better quality eggs and embryos through doing a mild protocol. Second Babyhopeful's advice about ubiquinol, I also take melatonin while stimming, and have upped protein, and even more so when stimming. Ubiquinol can take a few months to improve the quality of your eggs though. Have you read 'It Starts with the Egg'? Some of the advice is extreme (and in my opinion, completely incompatible with having an actual life) but there are some useful suggestions in there if you take them with a pinch of salt. I had my husband on proxeed for a few months and his sperm quality did improve. Unfortunately I couldn't get him to completely cut out alcohol and improve his diet, which I would have loved to have done, but he reduced to no beers during the week, and I think that also helped a lot. 

    AFM, have started prednisolone and progesterone now, and am having insomnia. I feel a wee bit emotional too, I was sitting watching Sex Education on Netflix (which is amazing by the way, so so funny and I love Gillian Anderson) and found that I was crying in some bits. Very embarrassing given its a teen comedy/drama. Anyway, I plan to pull a sickie for a few days next week and let the embryos bed in and have a list of tat to watch. I also joined a book club - first meeting tonight and I'm convinced it's all going to be old people for some reason!

    Offline Helenbeau

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    « Reply #1858 on: 28/01/19, 19:03 »
    Shady, just wanted to jump on quickly to say that I feel exactly the same...the insomnia and feeling a bit down in the dumps. It started a day after I started the progesterone. I wake up every night at about 4/5am without fail and have to really try coax myself back to sleep which doesnít really work. Iím sure itís a combination of the progesterone and the steroids although this time Iím only on 10mg. Are you on 25mg? I had exactly the same thing when I was pregnant so itís reminded me of that too which adds to the doom and gloom. Whenís your transfer?

    KatKat, i think go for the scan day 11. Just because youíre having a period I donít think the Estrogen will have zero effect. Reprofit booked my FET in too and I think it was more about sticking to your natrural cycle than taking it too far out. Although I still ovulated anyway so had to transfer 5 days after.

    Briss hope your interview went well x

    Offline katkat2014

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    « Reply #1859 on: 28/01/19, 19:57 »
    Helen and shady I have insomnia too but thought it was from the estrogen! Waking up around 4/5am every day.

    Helen I've emailed the clinic now to hear what they think. I don't want to scan too early as my lining is always so rubbish not not too late either as then I can't make any more changes to it.

    Shady no I am not down regging just estrogen. Yeah weird that they gave me my transfer day already whilst knowing fully well that on a natural cycle I barely make it to 6.5mm by day 13. Sorry you're feeling so emotional, must be a mix of the drugs/hormones and nerves.

    Briss hope all went well today!