* Author Topic: Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6  (Read 124926 times)

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Offline katkat2014

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Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
« Reply #1900 on: 6/02/19, 17:33 »
Hey rocket great to hear from you and thanks so much for your input. Assume that was also 10mg of vagifem? How is the little one?

Shady, fab news on the progesterone, that was super quick! Yeah rubbish, this is really stressful as I don't trust this doctor. I asked if I can take 3 x progynova orally plus 1 x estrofem vaginally and the 2 x lenzetto (each 1.5mg) and they said that's too much, I should stick with 2 x prog orally and 1 x estrofem/prog vaginally and the skin spray (so basically just up it by one pill a day). But they didn't answer my question of why it is too much? This is so exhausting. I have my next scan on Sunday afternoon now as I don't think I will see a lot by Saturday. So that will either be day 17 or day 14 of my cycle.

Helen, thinking of you. I booked a scan with your acupuncture guy for Saturday, thanks again for the contact details.

Klik I really hope it is not listeroisis, but why would you think that? Maybe it is just a sore throat and nothing more.

Sisi welcome. I also combined 150 gonal f with 2.5 letrozole and got quite a lot of follicles and eggs from it.

Afm sorry about all the estrogen questions. But is 11mg of estrogen a day too much and what harm can it do to the lining, implantation, body etc? That would be a mix of skin spray, oral and vaginal estrogen.


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    Online queenie123

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1901 on: 6/02/19, 18:41 »
    Hi guys,
    How is everyone doing?

    Shady - Congrats on your increased progesterone! - Have you thought of asking someone about your sore throat, I don't want to worry you but I think spread of bacteria via the circulating blood does lead to implantation failure and the mouth is one of the areas it can easily travel from, defiantly use a antibacterial mouthwash, and consider asking someone for some antibiotics.

    Katkat - I am sorry you are frustrated, I agree - how can you take progynova vaginally?  Although I do think 1 pill can make a difference as it's culumlative, I also agree vagifem would be better for you.  Can you ignore then and just take the Vagifem?   Also who is the Dr you don't like? Am probably going back there next week.
    Also I think if your follicles are growing to 8mm, then you are not suppressed enough (in my opinion),  My follicles hardly grew at all on my medicated transfer

    Klik - Whoop Whoop, so pleased for you things are still on track!  Stop worrying about listeriosis, but I do think the same as I said for Shady, bacteria travelling in the circulation can lead to premature births so consider asking for some azithromycin.  I know in a world of AMR we should be being careful, but if it were me I wouldn't want to risk it - but then there is always the risk the anti-biotics cause damage as well, so who knows?  Many Dr's will say 'it's probably viral' but it is their excuse to not prescribe antibiotics as most infections are self limiting - did they do a haematology as well?  You can have a good idea of a viral vs bacterial infection on the type of white cells, neutorphills normally = bacteria where as lymphocytes normally = viral (but this is just a rule of thumb, it's a bit more complex than that).

    Rocket - Hi, and so lovely to hear from you, how are you doing? How old is little one now?

    Sisi - Hi welcome!  Your protocol sounds good, I think letrazole for day 3 - 7 of a cycle can help, but I would avoid tamoxifem if you are doing a fresh transfer.  It's hard when all your eggs are in 1 basket, but I would definitely be adding preds in your situation, the consultant I had at Create would prescribe it for me - so it might be that you should see someone else next scan and ask again.

    Briss - Thank you so much for your support, part of the reason I feel high LH isn't good for meiosis is due to some of the work by Dr Sher  https://haveababy.com/fertility-information/ivf-authority/ivf-ovarian-stimulation-gnrh-protocol.  But also from my own experience of trying clomid banking (which keeps LH high all the way through), for me I have never made a blast on a cycle with high LH, but I have got embryo's so I do think it affects quality (but that's my personal opinion).  You know there are multiple options for you to keep it down and still have a good cycle from your last cycle.  If you wanted to try a nearly natural cycle, you could just do natural but add in some letrazole for the first 5 days??
    I know that a 7 cell embryo is not perfect 8 cell and so fingers crossed for this cycle, so I agree that it possibly wasn't the best embryo anyway, but I did honestly feel stretching until day8 post ov, so I think it got to blast stage in utero. (but who knows).  You (& Helen) also had pain in your uterus during the 2ww.  I am trying to understand if this is a good or bad thing??  I am actually very sensitive and can feel most things - for example, on my previous transfer cycle (last July) I picked up my friends 3 year old and afterwards felt a really bad pain like the little implanting embryo pulling away from the lining. (So no lifting for me on any future cycles).  Does anyone know if uterine cramping is a bad or good sign?  I mean if we have it should we be taking some buscopan? (smooth muscle relaxant which relaxes the uterus)??

    Sunshine - I have everything crossed for you, how many weeks are you now?  Keep going! Sounds really positive despite the very annoying haematoma.  I find it interesting that both you and Klik have had problems with them, I wonder what the prevalence is in DOR women and why that might be?  Anyway wrt. to your work - have you told them yet? Do you nip out for a bit to go for scans? might this be part of it? Sounds like they just want to know more about what's going on.

    AFM -
    I am on d9 of my cycle and this month I Oestrogen primed, took Letrozole for 3 days and 150iu of Menopur daily since then.
    L Ovary - 3 follicles 12, 10 and 10mm,
    R Ovary - 1 follicle 17mm x 14mm
    Lining - 5mm.

    I have flights booked to go to Brno for next friday but I don't think they will wait till then - any thoughts?

    Offline Helenbeau

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1902 on: 6/02/19, 18:51 »
    Just quickly jumping on to say Kat, I would definitely have started on more estrogen than 7mg. I didnít realise when I saw you that you were on only 7. As 6 is normal dose I donít think 7 is enough for you when have stubborn thin lining. I wouldnít worry about taking more. Some women just donít absorb artificial estrogen. My acupuncturist tells me this all the time that often the body absorbs it as fat. I donít know exactly what that means but I know I have problems absorbing it. The only thing that gets my lining thick is stims. I donít know why, is that because the stims have the knock on effect of producing natural oestrogen from the follicles? Iíve got some menopur you have have but not sure you can try it if you donít want ovulation, would it effect the suppression? Iíd wack up your dose for the next few days and as Shady says it might do the trick! I really hope so, youíve worked and waited so hard to get to this point. Which is the reprifit Dr whoís an ^Booty^?

    Shady, I got a sore throat my last cycle right over the implantation days....sounds like you might have the same? Letís hope so. Wow that progesterone went up fabulously!

    I probably could test already but Iím waiting until the weekend as Iíve got a job on this week and canít focus on that whilst potentially having a crisis! Iím in too scared to test. Do I have to? Iíd rather not and just wait to see if my belly grows 😂

    Offline Courtesy

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1903 on: 6/02/19, 20:13 »
    Hi @klik,

    I'm new here and I'm very interested in hearing about your CRGH experience!! In particular, what is the benefit of freezing embryos on day 3 vs day 5 if the goal is to let them fertilise to day 5 eventually?

    Kind regards,

    Offline Sisi172

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1904 on: 6/02/19, 21:32 »
    Thank you girls for the replays. I will e-mail my consultant and ask atout letrozole.
    Queenie do you think tamoxifen works on lining like clomid?
    Also did you have any immune tests done when you were prescribed prednisolone?
    Re buscopan, after my first successful transfer I was taking polish equivalent of it 3 times a day plus magnesium 3 times a day just to avoid any crampings.  This time I wasn't and it didn't work. I've also had a sore throat but I know of so many other girls that had cold symptoms and it was first sign of their pregnancy.

    Offline katkat2014

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1905 on: 6/02/19, 21:56 »
    Courtesy, welcome! There are different schools of thought. Some think the uterus is the best environment for an embryo and rather give it a chance by putting it back early (hence also freezing day 3) plus they want to ensure you have something to freeze or transfer. the other is that some clinics say if the embryo doesn't make it to day 5 in a Petri dish then it wouldn't have made it in uterus. They also say that the lining receptivity is better on day 5.

    Helen, thanks. Yeah just 7mg. Now am up to 9mg but wonder if I should just ignore them and take 11mg...what harm can it do? Hah don't wait till you pop.. but understand the chickening out. I hope there's nothing to fead though and keeping everything crossed for you!

    Queenie it's Dr Hana. She isn't bad but I don't click with her. I just had bad luck with her as both times she did my collection there was no egg and she also did my hysto and I just don't know if she did it right. Anyway I didn't like her reply today! I would definitely wait a good few more days so you ensure to have the chance of 3  eggs. But next Friday is pushing it I think with the large one. I also have flights for next Friday but like you I don't think that's going to happen! They were just so cheap I had to book them. But that's always the case isn't it. When you prebook you tend to lose them!

    Offline klik

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1906 on: 7/02/19, 13:58 »
    Sisi: welcome! Congrats on your already-existing child and good luck for the next one! A lot of doctors will happily prescribe prednisolone without testing your immunes first, but I guess some won't... There are some pretty good letrozole stories on here, but figuring out the ideal protocol for you usually takes time... Do you know how your LH tends to behave? How about your AFC? How quickly do you follicles usually grow, and does there tend to be a runaway dominant?

    katkat: oh, I don't really think I've got listeriosis, but on the off-chance I do, it should be treated... fwiw, CRGH did also prescribe vaginal progynova for me when I was doing a medicated frozen transfer. Yeah, you just insert the pill as far as your finger can get it in. I don't have a very good grasp of dosage, but I seem to remember that when my lining was slow to grow they added two pills per day to my regimen, not one... I'm not sure why your clinic is being so conservative with the amount of oestrogen... Maybe they think your lining is more or less on target and the protocol doesn't need much tweaking? Hard to know... When have you decided to have your next scan after all? Good luck!!!

    Shady: thanks... In practice, I find it all but impossible to follow all the advice on food--did I heat the leftovers for long enough? Has the food been out for too long before going into the fridge? Etc... Gosh, I didn't realise you had to ask to have your progesterone level tested! That seems very odd! But from memory Lister has pretty good success rates for blastocyst transfers so maybe it doesn't matter all that often? Still, we know their reaction was to prescribe you intramuscular injections right away, so we know they didn't like that number either. Your progesterone level rose incredibly quickly, which is great! But the new number makes me feel like it's all being measured in nmol, which makes that 7 even more terrifyingly low (ovulatory rather than luteal, really...) Still, I hope the lining is ready when the blasts are, and that implantation is happening already... Good luck!!! Wait, so your book club is by complete coincidence about to read a book about childlessness?! That's super interesting, but I think my feelings would be all over the place if I were reading that during the 2ww!

    Rocket: hi! Hoping you're well!!!

    queenie: thanks! Yeah, my doc thinks it's most likely viral--which, to be fair, is true. He got me checked for toxoplasmosis as well as listeriosis, as those are the two most dangerous-to-pregnancy relevant types of infection. As far as I understand it, everything else is mostly about controlling temperature and maintaining hydration... your follicles look good! I know some clinics would happily sacrifice the lead, as the others look pretty close in size, but I understand that would be counterproductive for you... So is your flight for Friday week? That does sound like it's pushing it, though it's possible your follicles will grow very slowly--and of course with letrozole you do want big juicy follicles... I hope the timing works out, but most importantly I hope the cycle works out--good luck!

    Helen: lol, it will take a while for your belly to grow! I'm sorry you're too anxious to test--best of luck whenever you do!!! It's an emotional moment, this--likely your last initial test of the era of OE. Hopefully your last initial test of any era, as this one will take and stick--best of luck--thinking of you!!!

    Courtesy: welcome! katkat's observations are completely true, but as you probably know CRGH does have a preference, as a clinic, for day-5 transfers. The idea is for you to collect "enough" day 3 embryos that it makes sense to grow them all together to day 5 (so you only pay the blastocyst culture fee once for all your batched embryos, rather than paying for it each time you produce even one embryo)... Good luck!

    AFM: my mini-illness has taken a turn for the much worse--it's now either a really nasty cold or a pretty mild flu (flu jab notwithstanding). Temperature got near the danger zone of 38.5, so I'm constantly on paracetamol now... And I have a terrible cough--I lose bladder control, I was wheezing at one point, and I threw up once, all just from the strength of the cough. So never mind that yoga I was craving--I haven't even dared leave the house at all... My doc gave me a list of ok-for-pregnancy symptom relief meds, which help but honestly I'm pretty miserable at the moment... And I've lost a bit of weight, which makes me feel guilty, as this is a time when I should really be putting on weight... Feh. Just hoping the little guy and I make it through this unscathed...

    Offline Sunshine122

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1907 on: 7/02/19, 15:43 »
    Shady, when is your OTD? I found jigsaw puzzles whilst listening to audio books a good distraction when Iíd had enough of Netflix.

    Helen, wishing you all the luck when you test too.

    Queenie, your follicles sound good, hoping they hold out for your flights next Friday!  From what I have read, hematomas are pretty common in IVF pregnancies although of course Kliks was a natural, but Iím not sure about the relation to DOR.

    Klik, sorry you are feeling so rubbish, Iíve also got a really horrible cold, streaming nose, sore throat, achey and just generally feel disgusting, I donít seem to have a temperature though felt pretty shivery earlier so have so far taken 1 paracetemol!! Canít wait to get home to my bed! When did you stop taking the progesterone? I should be starting to wean off it quite soon.

    Afm, luckily (touch wood) I havenít had anymore heavy bleeding although every toilet trip feels like an ordeal at the moment, just in case. I also had my absence meeting at work, the manager it was with basically told me off record that it was load of bull and it was just to follow the company policy and not to worry about it, which was obviously a relief but by that point I had already spent a few days stressing over it ( Queenie, its has literally only been the 2.5days Iíve taken as sick leave, all my scan appts Iíve used holiday for). Now I have this horrible cold! So not having the best week and feel like Iím putting the baby through quite a bit, not to mention my sickness has gone which I should be happy about, but Iím not! Iíve got my nuchal scan next tuesday so hopefully the baby is resilient enough to stay strong xx

    Offline MSJ

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1908 on: 8/02/19, 10:28 »
    Hi ladies sorry havenít posted for a while, will try and catch up with all the posts

    Briss- sorry for your chemical, but at least you know implantation took place. And gardening leave could be exactly what you need to de-stress. Whilst I was on extended leave I was hoping they may make me redundant but they were too short staffed so it didnít happen. Otherwise Iím sure they wouldnít think twice about it.

    Shady- good luck with the TWW and hope progesterone levels are ok now. I know some clinics donít monitor it which is quite annoying. My first transfer was a waste due to not having enough progesterone.

    Helen - also fingers crossed. I know how nerve racking the whole process can be. I find it extremely nerve racking from getting reports on embryo development all the way to OTD

    Sunshine- sorry about the work situation but glad everything is going fine, and hope it continues to do so.

    Klik - sorry youíre not feeling well. I think there is something going round. I suddenly  started to feel sick on Tuesday and was completely wiped out for a couple of days. Body was really heavy and weak and achy. Hope itís just a bit of a cold and glad everything is going ok and continue to do so.

    Chini- the conservative treatment for adeno I was reading about is called HIFU- itís a high intensity frequency ultrasound. Also I was reading some women choose to have PNS for the pain itís pre sacral neurectomy. This procedure stops the nerves from feeling pain, itís so that women suffering from severe pain can try to conceive without being in severe pain month on month. It does sound a bit drastic though so I guess itís for those whose pain is bad enough to get relief.

    What I am struggling with also is finding the right specialist for my condition. What Iím finding is those that are specialist in endo/adeno arenít fertility specialists s vice versa. Those who do have some knowledge on endo and are fertility specialists unfortunately donít have the right skills  to do expert excision surgery, which is quite frustrating.

    Poppy- hope ARGC manage to get your cytokines under control. I didnít have Humira as my cytokines were borderline before stimms, but I did do a lot of testing with Dr G. This showed I had low LAD, which is basically paternal antibodies, my body was not recognising paternal cells which embryo is half of as an altered self, so I had some LIT therapy for this with my partners white blood cells. I also had uterine biopsy which showed cytokines were ok but NK cells were sky high. I know a lot of women who didnít have enough immunes done with ARGC go to dr Gorgy for immunes and have treatment with ARGC.

    Queenie- your follies are looking good! I hope you manage to get an even growth. Regarding DOR Iím not sure how accurate this is but I was reading on the endo forum that a large majority of DOR is caused by endo (known or unknown as it can be very hard to diagnose without a lap). And on the forum it said that endo/adeno can cause complications with pregnancies like sunshine and Klik. Anyway that was on the endo forum so Iím sure it is biased! Iím not suggesting that either of you have this horrible disease but I thought Iíd just share what I read.

    AFM- my work has been high stress as a department head left which meant my boss is having to cover both depts and therefore is throwing her work at me to cover her role. I was told I didnít have a choice. So thatís pretty much taken over my life.
    I start my freezing cycle this week. I had my day 5 scan yesterday at Create and I have 8 follicles. 3 were already quite big 2x 10 and 1x 8. That seems a bit weird doesnít it? Only thing Iíve done differently this cycle is be really stressed and no acupuncture and take 2 tabs of  ubiquinol a day from start of period. Maybe I should stop the extra ubiquinol?

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    Offline Poppy1981

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1909 on: 8/02/19, 14:40 »
    Briss, Iím just reading Alan Beerís book and he talks about progesterone antibodies, if yours is constantly low, could it be something to do with that? In any case, I think your thoughts are sensible, if your body responds better to natural cycles I think thatís the way forward, plus you can have them more often as you donít need a long break for your body to recover. Yes, immunes sadly are complex, and I currently feel that whichever decision I take I might end up regretting it. What is Ďbump & gloryí?

    Shady, great news with your progesterone going up. Thank you for the advice re: supplements too. I will look into ĎIt starts with the eggí as soon as Iím done with Alan Beerís book. Although to be fair, Iím now on 15 pills a day so not sure how many more I can add? But I will definitely up my ubiquinol to 600mg and am doing my best with the diet too.

    Helen, best of luck with the testing if you do test this weekend! I know what you mean though, tests are so stressful. Will be thinking of you in the coming days.

    Klik, Iím sorry to hear about your illness, it sounds nasty. Good to hear the meds are helping a bit, hope youíll soon start feeling better moodwise too! Yes, itís interesting about the link between egg quality and TNFa, Iím just thinking since both Alan Beer and ARGC believe in it, there may be some truth in it?

    Katkat, hope the estrogen combination works for you.

    Sunshine, sorry about your cold but great news about no bleeding. Hope you get over the sickness soon.

    Chini, hope youíre ok.

    Sissi, hi! I think many clinics prescribe prednisolone empirically but of course you can always opt out for tests but they are expensive. I think prednisolone works if you have mild issues but for anything more serious youíd need other things too like intralipids etc.

    Courtesy, hi! Sorry I didnít respond to your question about day 3/5 transfers on the other thread, ARGC donít favour day 3, they said to me they always aim for blastocysts but just like other clinics would want 3 good embryos on day 3 to wait till day 5.

    Rocket, hi! Congrats on your baby girl.

    Queenie, hi! Good luck with your cycle, many low AMH ladies Iíve spoken to seem to have had good responses to estrogen priming, hope itís the same for you.

    MSJ, hi! Similarly to you, I had two dominant follicles last natural cycle and the doctor said that sadly this happens when FSH starts to rise. Are you taking anything like wheatgrass to lower it? Iím really interested to hear about your testing and treatment with doctor G. Can I ask what prompted you to go to him - was it your initial immune test results? How long do his LAD tests take to come back? I now have two months of waiting anyway so thinking it might be useful to do any extra tests. So far my problems are low AMH and high TNFa, NK cells seem to be in order.

    Afm, no side effects from the first Humira but dreading the retest and possible flare in a monthís time. Honestly have no idea what to do in case Iím given a second course of it. On the positive side, Alan Beerís book is very interesting, and supplements wise I have added turmeric and increased my dose of fish oil and am eating lots of veggies and protein. Iíve also ordered raw prenatal garden of life to replace pregnacare based on Brissí recommendation.

    Hi to any ladies Iíve missed and have a lovely weekend all xxx