* Author Topic: Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6  (Read 125073 times)

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Offline MSJ

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Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
« Reply #1940 on: 10/02/19, 23:13 »
Katkat sorry your FET isnít going to plan, it must be really frustrating. I hope you get some answers soon. Iím sorry Iím not able to help you as Iíve never done a FET before

Helen so sorry for the BPN. It really is heartbreaking this process. Especially with 2 blasts. I had a failure with 3 blasts which was very hard to take compared to 1 blast. It just feels like such a waste.I hope youíre doing ok.

Babyhopeful - I think the impact on male partners can be forgotten in this process sometimes and it doesnít help that they donít talk about emotional stuff with one another. I feel really annoyed with our male friends who we have been open with what weíre going through and they donít even ask my DH how he is or how itís going. Especially as my DH is so sweet and will take care of them after a break up etc.. Anyway, at least your DH is opening up to you now, which is only a good thing and you have each other to talk to as well as the counsellor to deal with emotions.


Poppy To reduce inflammation I also take tumeric milk. I heat up a little bit of coconut oil and heat up some organic tumeric with black pepper then add milk. (I use almond unless Iím cycling as I have endo and milk tends to aggravate my endo). You can add other things to your taste. Such as cardamom, cinnamon, organic cocoa powder, honey. I have got used to the taste and try to have it every other night. Itís apparently better for absorption to have tumeric that has been heated up with black pepper.

Regarding immunes with Dr G it is expensive. I was on the ARGC thread and there were some women there who had failed cycles with ARGC and went to Dr G for immunes and were successful. Thatís the reason I went to him. I had a failed cycle with 3 blasts transferred which was gutting and I just felt like there must be something else going on. With LAD testing it costs about £240 for blood test. Which takes 2 weeks to come back. If itís low you will have your partners white blood cells injected into your forearm. This is LIT treatment costs £850. Then you have to wait approx 4 weeks to retest. You may need more than one LIT treatment. Have you read Agates guide to immunes? It has lots of useful information on there. But if you are reading Alan Beers book Iím sure youíre already getting lots of useful information.
I unfortunately didnít cycle as planned with ARGC as my FSH had risen and they wanted me to wait and wait and retest again and again and I got frustrated and moved to Create. So itís all been a bit of a saga!

Briss I hope you managed to get some answers on a possible eptopic or not. I guess thereís no harm on staying on progesterone for a little longer just in case.

Klik thanks yes it sucks. Works been a good distraction and itís good to have some money and welcome opportunities but all the additional work does suck. Iím glad you are feeling better now.

AFM- I went for my day 7 scan yesterday at Create, their systems had all gone down which didnít help, but I have one dominant follicle at 17 already! I hadnít even started cetrotide. So it was all very confusing. I was told I was either going to trigger yesterday for egg collection on Monday, or trigger tonight for egg collection on Tues. or maybe even trigger yesterday and collect today! They were very worried that I would ovulate. I wish they monitored me on day 6 or at least got me to start cetrotide on day 6! Any way I went back for bloods today and the plan now is to trigger tonight and egg collection on Tuesday. Itís all happened very quickly. They did also give me some indometacin capsules 3 times a day to stop me from ovulating early. Iím guessing as this is a natural modified cycle it is normal for one runaway dominant follicle? I donít know why it developed so quick this cycle. My day 5 was borderline day 6, as in I was full flow by 5pm and their cut off is 4pm so first day of my period wasnít counted as day 1. So maybe  I was just further along my cycle than last time.

The time between trigger and egg collection is 35 hours this time, it was 36 hours last time I wonder why this is? I didnít get a chance to ask the reason, but she did go and double check and changed it from 36 hours to 35 hours so I guess I need to put some trust on the nurse.

I guess what I am worried about is the amount of stress Iíve had on the run up to this cycle and sickness for a couple of days of this cycle, which canít have been good for my already high FSH levels and possibly egg quality. There isnít much I can do about it now I guess...I am also worried about ovulating early. I was doing ovulation tests up to this afternoon which didnít show even the faintest of line. Maybe the test strips are duff


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    Offline katkat2014

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1941 on: 11/02/19, 11:26 »
    Queenie, good luck for EC! If the line was still faint you should be fine I think. The only time I ever ovulated prematurely was when the line was already quite strong on the opk. By the way I think I misunderstood your previous email, I thought you wanted EC on Friday.

    MSJ don't worry about the 35 vs 36 hours, these are just approximate times. Reprofit collect at 35 hours most of the time on a natural cycle and Gennet always at 36 hours. I made a mistake once and triggered too early and collection was at  34.5 hrs and it was fine too.

    AFM got a message from my clinic: 'We do transfers latest (without down regulation injcetion) latest on day 23-24 of the cycle (because of our experience) then itīs only possible to do you with down regulation injection. If the lining will increase until the Tuesday then the transfer will go ahead.' Now, what minimum lining should I consider to go ahead or not? I always said I won't transfer into a lining less than 8mm as I have fought so hard to get the blasts. Would 7mm give me a decent chance? And anything less just give it another try next month? I don't understand what the point of down regulation is though. I don't have any follicles growing, the largest is still at 8mm unchanged from 5 days ago. They don't look like they would ovulate?! I just don't understand the problem with waiting a couple more days.

    Offline Briss

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    « Reply #1942 on: 11/02/19, 15:45 »
    As I feared the scan was inconclusive.  They could not find pregnancy inside the uterus but could not see anything outside either but again hcg levels are probably just too low. They want it at least 1000. Unfortunately my HCG continues to rise it has gone up to 561 compared to 284 3 days ago. Am still in limbo but one thing is definite is that this is not viable pregnancy.  Also lining looked weird.  They call it cystic. I know how lining looks when there is an implanted embryo you can't miss it. It's the only visible 4-5 mm dot on otherwise even background . Whereas now there were so many tiny black holes it looks like it's ready to break up.

    Kat, i can't really advise as my situation is very different but last few days i have been reading a lot about the initial implantation and what i did not realise before is that there is apparently only a small window in TWW when the lining is receptive to implantation. there is certain chemical on the outer layer of an embryo that corresponds to a chemical in the lining (the one that makes it "sticky"). the research I read suggested that it's matter of 2-4 days, outside of that window even a viable embryo won't be able to attach. In your case I'd be worried about wasting a good embryo if the transfer is not optimally timed. i might also look into that glue thing, i have not researched it but i am guessing it should contain the "sticky" chemicals to help embryo attach.

    queenie, best of luck with EC! I find cetrotide masks the real LH levels. I often get negative OPKs when I am on cetrotide and low LH blood levels but then all of a sudden it's a Peak/surge.


    Offline Helenbeau

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1943 on: 11/02/19, 17:20 »
    Hi Briss, Iím really sorry. I know all too well this wait. My first beta was 187, a week later it was just over 200. They saw nothing on the scan. They said could be ectopic but I thing they always say that. Two days after the 200 beta it started rising and almost doubling but never quite. No idea what happened in that first week when the beta didnít go up but as it kept rising after that they said it could be ok (obviously never was). I got to 9.5 weeks before MC. I hope you donít have to wait that long, and I really hope this could be viable. X

    Kat, tricky one. Iím tempted to say, as painful as it is, that if you donít get good numbers tomorrow you should try again next month knowing that youíll take a higher level of oestrogen and hopefully the lining will get thicker quicker. With all of my FETS (except the first one I had which was medicated the others are natural) my lining never got over 7mm and I had bfn from all of them. I think my bfn this time was to do with lining and timing as my progesterone was 70ng which was 222pmol and I think that was way to high for transfer day so I think it fried my lining. Who knows. Let us know what you get tomorrow x

    Offline Briss

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    « Reply #1944 on: 11/02/19, 18:41 »
    Oh Helen, how traumatic to have to wait until 9.5 weeks ... I suppose in a way it is a good sign meaning your body really wants to get pregnant and will hold on to pregnancy for as long as possible. In my case I don't think its viable so I stopped progesterone (again!) And went back to drinking coffee. I may make a trip to a&e tomorrow to get referral to an early pregnancy unit. I think I should get some (free) monitoring in case I need to take medication to stop it. I'll definitely need more scans and bloods and we already spent a fortune on this. I still hope I can miscarry naturally cos that would mean I can move on straight away.

    Thank you so much for the info on sperm donors! Do IVF clinics not offer donor sperm?  I'm trying to understand how it works . Do you approach a sperm bank separately and they deliver the sample on egg collection day? Which clinics do you work with? I mean I need to know which clinics accept single women with donor sperm. I have a friend who is currently married but she wants to go with donor sperm (will take ages to get through the divorce and she does not have that time to waste). Obviously she will have to lie about her marital   status .... I remember a clinic in Denmark was mentioned? Was it yours? Do you know how easy it is to do iui with donor sperm?

    Offline Helenbeau

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    « Reply #1945 on: 11/02/19, 20:23 »
    You buy the sperm from the sperm banks and they deliver it to the clinic. Then you have to pay the clinicís storage cost on top! They charge you for everything! The sperm has to be at the clinic before they let you start any treatment so you canít do it last minute. Some clinics might have their own sperm banks but there will be less choice so it depends how much she cares about having info about the donor. I imagine theyíll still charge a similar amount to the sperm banks. As a single woman you can have treatment here, Denmark, Budapest, Spain and Greece but in budapest and Greece the donor has to be anonymous but it is at least free!

    So whoís had immunology tests? Iím so confused about the whole steroid thing. If I should take them, what quantity etc. I donít think serum know much about it but they do offer the Chicago test for only £400. Trying to decide if I should have any further testing, where, who with and how much Iíd be looking at paying. Maybe the NK cells biopsy is a good idea? Was there some place in Coventry people go to? Kat who is this Dr Brosnen you mention? Any thoughts much appreciated! X

    Offline katkat2014

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    « Reply #1946 on: 11/02/19, 21:20 »
    Briss I cannot help but still hope for you.. ^hugme^

    Helen, Dr brosens and quenby are in Coventry and do the uNK cell biopsy and follow up scratch if wanted. I am just not too sure what to think about all of this. On biopsy one mine was borderline raised and I was supposed to take 20mg pred and biopsy two it was borderline raised (perhaps a bit less than before) and was told research changed and they suggest I take nothing. On the other hand a friend of mine found out via them that she's pre receptive (I think they may do something like the era as well but not sure) and finally afterr many many transfers she just had her baby. Do you not think as you've had 2 pregnancies to 9/10 weeks it's just the chromosomes at play? Thanks about input on lining, I will need to wait and see tomorrow now.

    Offline Poppy1981

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    « Reply #1947 on: 11/02/19, 21:52 »
    Briss, Iím so sorry you still donít have a closure, I donít know what to advise but hope youíre staying strong xx

    Queenie, good luck for EC!

    Helen, really sorry about your BFN, it definitely sounds like it could be immunes to me with the cramping you had. You could look into tests with Dr Gorgy, you may already know this but he does all Chicago tests as well as alloimunes - you would be fully covered this way and he does treat you while you cycle elsewhere. He is expensive but I think it comes out cheaper than a full ARGC cycle and his tests actually are more detailed than ARGCís. If this ARGC cycle doesnít work for me, Iím thinking of going to him. Others may know more about Dr Brosens and Quenby, as much as I remember they are more focussed on uterine NK cells rather than bloods (there are differing opinions in what is better to test) but I have heard very positive feedback about them and they will certainly be cheaper. Good luck with whatever you decide, Iím definitely glad I tested immunes (cost around £1100 at ARGC by the way) as otherwise I would have never known I have high TNFa - everybody said my problem is low reserve but it appears I have both problems :(

    Katkat, sorry about your lining issues, fingers crossed your lining gets thicker tomorrow. If not, I think 7mm is the minimum they want and I would agree with others that maybe next cycle might give you a better chance if it doesnít go above that.

    MSJ, sorry I misunderstood your message before, I thought you hadnít yet started your cycle and had a natural cycle scan. I think during stims some follicles racing ahead is a very common thing, however you can get good eggs from a range of sizes and itís very hard to predict what the follicles will do on last days of stims / after trigger. I had the same problem in my last cycle and Iím curious to find out how ARGC would resolve it as I hear they have ways of slowing some larger follicles to let others catch up. Good luck with the trigger and EC, Iím sure the timing will be fine, we were made to wait nearly 2 hours after our scheduled EC time at Guys, not that it should be a rule. Thank you for the tip - Iíve just had a glass of warm milk with the contents of my turmeric / black pepper capsule, itís definitely manageable, especially with honey :) Iím taking huge amounts of fish oil too. Yes, Agateís guide to immunes is very helpful, one thing that I still donít know is how common LAD /DQ alpha issues actually are - and whether the fact that DH and I come from completely different countries makes us less likely to have match issues or not?

    Klik, glad to hear youíre feeling better. Yes, doctors who explain things are definitely a treasure thatís hard to find! I guess that was one of the main reasons why we decided on ARGC - the doctor was telling us what exactly she wanted to do and why - which immediately made us trust her. dr Ozturk sounds like Iím sure many others have good reasons to do things too - but they donít necessarily say them out loud which can make us guess and worry more!

    Banyhopeful, good luck with your cycle in March. Itís great that you and DH got to talk things out. I often think how my DH is really feeling, he seems strong and positive but how do I know heís not crying inside, if he was, I think there would be a big chance he wouldnít tell me not wanting to make me more upset.

    Sunshine, I hope youíre felling better.

    Hi to Blue, Shady, Chini and everyone else - hope youíre all ok.

    Afm, no news but hope to have some on Wednesday post ARGC doctorís call. I plan to ask what my chances are with cycling after just one course of Humira plus IVIG during stims as opposed to waiting and retesting, then if necessary taking another course, especially when the immunes can flare after the second course anyway. If I follow their usual plan I canít cycle till June which would mean 6 months after my last cycle (devastating), if I donít, at least it could be April - but whether they will let me choose is another question.

    Offline ShadyWheat

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    « Reply #1948 on: 12/02/19, 13:08 »
    Queenie and MSJ, masses of good luck for your ECs! I am keeping everything crossed for you both that these are going to be your golden eggs.

    Briss, I am so so sorry, gosh this just sounds unbelievably stressful and upsetting after everything you have already been through. I can imagine that you can't think of anything else. I didn't even know about symptoms of ectopic pregnancies, its not anything that ever really entered my mind, which is probably quite naive of me. I very much hope you are able to get the medical help you need soon, preserve your fertility and be able to move on with a next cycle really soon. With these things, it is always the time you waste that bothers me the most, although of course it is heartbreaking to think of the little embryo not knowing that it has no future. xxx

    KatKat, I am also so annoyed on your behalf! Grr! With your previous experiences of being relatively insensitive to oestrogen they really should have started you on a higher dose early. Frustrating as it is, I would definitely not transfer a good embryo into a suboptimal lining. I also forgot to ask whether they prescribed you any kind of blood thinners or are you taking baby aspirin? If you are taking high doses of oestrogen (but sorry, I don't know what the cut off is), you should really also take some form of blood thinner.

    Sunshine, good luck for your nuchal scan this week. I really hope its good news and then you can start to relax as you will soon be into the middle trimester.

    Babyhopeful, I'm glad to hear you are feeling ready to go again and that AF came back. I found it really helped me once it came and that I was reassured my body was back to normal. So hard about DH, I really feel for him. Men don't really discuss these things with their friends and they don't have a support network, they feel like they need to stay strong for us, but they are completely helpless in the process. I am glad your DH opened up to you though and was able to be honest that is suffering too.

    Klik, I'm glad you are feeling much better and that the little guy is still hanging in there! It is scary to be ill when you are pregnant, I always overthink all that could be going wrong systemically.

    Poppy, hope you get a go ahead from ARGC for April and don't need another course of Humira.

    Helen, yes, the whole immunology testing is really confusing. And in my honest opinion a money pit. PM if you want to know more about my experiences with Dr G but suffice to say I spent over £2K in testing with him and don't really have any clear answers. I also have a copy of Alan Beer's book I can post to you if you like as I was only going to take it to the charity shop. It's not a particularly illuminating read, it could do with a good edit and a huge chunk of it is promo material. I have a bit of a better opinion of Dr Brosens and Quenby scientifically although I haven't seen them for a consult, they do well respected academic and medical research and I have come across them before in a work context. I feel really lost like you - we seem to go through exactly the same process at the same time! It's spooky.....  ;D

    AFM, so its a BFN for me too, not a good start to the year for this thread. I didn't have very high hopes as I had no symptoms. I tested on Sunday and then some symptoms started to kick in (probably due to progesterone finally getting high) and I tested again today and its still BFN and its 11dp5dt. I feel sort of ok about it, as physically and mentally this round was definitely the easiest yet and I did everything I could possibly do but not really sure what to do next. If I could be confident if it was embryo quality, I would give up on OE now and move to DE. My gut feeling is that is the most likely explanation, but there is also the fact my progesterone was way too low and the lining might not have been receptive in time for the embryos to implant. As well as the sore throat, I developed a vasculitis type rash along blood vessels on my thighs, which I have had as a side effect of taking aza in the past, but I'm off it now. I am worried this could indicate there is some kind of immune thing going on. Did anyone have experiences like this on steroids or clexane? Anyway, we see our consultant next week and I'm probably going to try and start a fresh cycle next month if he'll let me. Max more 2 cycles then give up. I started trying for a baby when I was 33 and now the reality is I will not have a baby before I am 40 so I pretty much wasted my 30s being miserable and I need to move on. Has anyone tried Access Fertility and have an idea of their pricing for discounted 2 rounds?

    Offline Helenbeau

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #1949 on: 12/02/19, 14:42 »
    Oh Shady, so gutted for you! Itís infuriating! If only we had a camera up there to see whatís going on. If your progesterone was too low then I think mine was too high, but what can you do except have tests everyday?!
    Really sorry honey. Weíll go again, together Iím sure. Even Iím thinking of another OE cycle 🤦🏻‍♀️ X