* Author Topic: Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6  (Read 124996 times)

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Offline LXP

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Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
« Reply #220 on: 18/02/18, 18:55 »
Thank you for kind comments. Tily I think that was my problem we did so much better than expected that I just assumed the last but would happen. I'm sorry about your egg not fertilizing. This whole progress is heart breaking. This is our first cycle. I don't know how you ladies keep going xx

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    Offline ShadyWheat

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #221 on: 18/02/18, 19:30 »
    Tily, I am also so very sorry to hear your news, I really felt that this time was going to be better for you and I'm gutted after the efforts you went to and moving country again to cycle that you didn't get fertilisation. I know it's so hard because you put so much hope and emotional investment into it, but I don't think you can draw any conclusions from 1 egg not fertilising with ICSI. I had almost the same happen on my third round, no normal fertilisation from 2 eggs, but I don't believe it means that you can't produce any good eggs. It is a numbers game, but I understand, we don't have infinite financial and emotional resources to know how long to keep going for. Can you remind me why Lister recommended ICSI, I thought your DH's sperm has improved? I actually saw better fertilisation rates once we switched from ICSI to IVF, and Lister have said to me sometimes ICSI isn't the best route for more 'fragile' DOR eggs. Sending massive hugs to you and DH xxx

    LXP - what a sad weekend, I'm so sorry to hear about your BFN. It's really horrible, whether its the first time or the nth time it happens. As others have said, please be kind to yourself and take the time to consider your next steps - can you have some time off work? I found it quite helpful to wallow and have a few days off and sofa days with netflix. I think you didn't have a bad cycle though, you got a lot of eggs and got all the way to ET, so I would feel really encouraged by that to try again.

    HelenBeau, really sorry to hear about your frozen embryo and that you are feeling down. As Briss said, you don't have to rush into making decisions, I personally would try transferring one of your other ones (or both) before cycling again and moving onto DS if that's what you decide you would like to do without your partner. I can't advise on 1 or 2, though, I'm hovering myself about what to do - leaning towards 2 after the doctor's recommendation (and if only so that I can get on with cycling again if they both turn out to be no good).

    Laura - great news you are starting again. Keeping everything crossed for you this time

    Sunshine - hope you enjoyed your spa day! I think ov day was the same for both of us (thurs), but I started feeling AF type pains today already so on one hand bad, but on the other, hopefully I can at least start doing something once she arrives.

    Susie, hope everything is going well with the pregnancy!

    Cramer - good to hear from you, I don't know how you juggle all the travel. I think I need to find a new job mainly to find time to cycle and not have to travel... if I can't do something in March, I don't really know what to do, I'll have to canx something as I'm due to go abroad April, May, June and July so far..... Hope your scan looks good at CRGH to start again!

    Klik, hope you had a wonderful time in France this weekend and will be thinking of you tomorrow. I hope it all goes smoothly and its not too painful.

    KatKat, MA66, BabyHopeful, Blue, Mac, Queenie, Pickle and Briss - hi to you all and to anyone I may have missed by name xxx

    Offline dorchestor2016

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #222 on: 18/02/18, 20:12 »
    Hi Tily, I am truly absolutely gutted to hear about this! 
    Maybe you should avoid Letrozole next time and go for a more natural cycle....
    I agree with Queenie did they scan you before the collection? Had they lost the dominant follicle as this has happened to me previously at the Lister?
    I think you need to find out if the dominant follicle egg was collected?
    You may also want to avoid ICSI next time....
    Please try to see this as a learning cycle and you now know one follicle does produce good estrogen levels.
    Sending a big hug!

    Offline LauraC81

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    « Reply #223 on: 18/02/18, 21:23 »
    Babyhopeful:  Ah thatís good Ė I am just trying everything and anything that has any hint of working (and is definitely not going to hurt).  I must say acupuncture is one of the more fun things Iím doing!  FX that your hormones sort themselves out for next month.

    Sunshine122:  Hope you enjoyed your spa day, I had one on Thursday evening and it was lovely, definitely helps to chill out.

    Tily:  So sorry to read about your bad news, sending lots of hugs, hope that youíre able to treat yourself to something nice to help you feel better, it really sucks when youíve waited so long and had your hopes so high.  Take care of yourself my dear, you need some time to process things and clear your head (easier said than done I know!)

    Mac78:  I think there are quite a few London ladies on here who have acupuncture so maybe worth asking on some of the other forums.

    Shadywheat:  Thank you.  How are you getting on?

    Offline tily

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #224 on: 18/02/18, 21:58 »
    Hi Ladies,

    Thanks so much for all your kind thoughts.

    Briss - whilst it was probably the egg, either quality or collection day, I'm not sure I would use frozen sperm again. You're right; it sounds like the dream logistically and my DH has basically been on a detox / freeze cycle for the last 12 months so we are always out of sync with each other. You're also right that growing an egg is an extremely tricky business. And there is no margin for error on our older eggs.

    Queenie - I waited around for 3 hours until my doctor had finished all her embryo transfers to find out which follicle the egg came from and she said it was definitely the larger follicle. But then she also happened to say that it was borderline as to whether it was mature or not. The lead was 23mm * 21mm so unless Letrozole follicles need to be much much bigger to be mature?? Also, I was scanned before the GA and told the 2 follicles were still there. However, I did feel intense ovulation pain the PM before EC. I wonder was it the smaller one that wasn't mature??

    Laura - thanks so much... hope you're well.

    Dorchester - I think the sperm might be good enough the next time without ICSI. I just thought I would use the frozen stuff which had low normal WHO parameters. But it's improved significantly in recent months but not on count.

    Shady - hope you had a nice weekend and thanks for your best wishes.

    Mac - thanks for your well wishes. It might have been a timing issue is they were saying that it wasn't mature. At one stage, a Sunday EC was in the frame but I just don't know anymore...

    Thanks everyone again, at least you ladies understand the pain of this process. I thought if I tried hard enough or was prepared to do multiple cycles and bank, that I had a chance of beating this but I've just been so sad all day thinking about the fact that it's very like I'll never have bio children and somehow I find it very difficult to accept that I'm in this position. DH has been super supportive today but also firm that he wants us finished with all treatment by the end of 2018, whether it's OE, DE whatever. I can't criticise him for it either. He has seen everything I've gone through and it's probably his way of protecting our mental health. Xx

    Offline queenie123

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #225 on: 18/02/18, 22:28 »
    So do they say your 15/16mm follicle was empty then?  doesn't make sense.
    or just that the egg was immature?

    Offline tily

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #226 on: 18/02/18, 22:37 »
    Hi Queenie, she said that the smaller follicle was empty, there was nothing inside it and hadn't been anything inside it. I still don't really understand the empty follicle thing...

    Offline katkat2014

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #227 on: 18/02/18, 22:45 »
    Lxp am really sorry to hear about your recent cycle. I really am not sure what to suggest to be honest as I have no knowledge of stats of ivf versus natural conception if there are no obvious issues (other than low amh) . Just sending you a very big hug for now and hope your next cycle will work better.

    Tilly after all the injections and scans and spending time abroad, this is just devastating! At every corner there  seems  to  be a hurdle! I can really feel with you not just for you.  I had a bit of a breakdown today too about OE vs DE... Just sending you a massive hug  ^hugme^  it's so unfair  :-[

    Offline AdelineX

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #228 on: 18/02/18, 23:54 »
    Ladies, I am so sorry to hear your news. I kept reading your updates, but felt unable to write, felt absolutely miserable lately. 
    LXP, big hug, take your time to heal a bit, and try again soon when you're ready...

    Tily - your pain and disappointment are awfully familiar to me. I am so sorry, I wish I could do something to ease the terrible intensity of this sad moment. Although I only have one failed IVF cycle, your experience with one egg not fertilising is exactly what happened to us back in November in Brno. We also used frozen sperm, and I had a bigger follicle and a smaller, empty one. Nobody would be able to give you an answer regarding what went wrong. I didn't even ask for one, I  told the dr. at our follow up that I'm aware they have no explanation so we should focus on other aspects.  There are many stages of egg development and maturation, they are all hormone-dependent, and they can't tell if the egg or sperm are chromosomally competent, they just look at them under the microscope, no `inside` view. Unfortunately, low ovarian reserve at our age often means lower egg quality, and the good eggs are rarer and more difficult to find. Frozen sperm has similar fertilisation rates to fresh sperm, so I wouldn't necessarily blame the sperm, unless of course it was just an unlucky draw.
    To quickly answer your question regarding empty follicles - if a follicle is not big enough (usually above 16-17 mm), even if in fact it contains an egg, the egg remains attached to the inner wall of the follicle until it is mature. Only then it detaches and can be aspirated together with the fluid inside the follicle.

    Please try to stay afloat, these are hard days. Mental health is crucial, your DH is so right to put it first. The feeling that a genetic child is unlikely is so incredibly painful, and not being able to get an answer regarding what went wrong only makes things worse. I remember crying and crying and not being able to get out of bed for days, feeling abnormal and defective and so incredibly alone. That one egg not being fertilised obsessed me for weeks, the ultimate measure of my reproductive failure. Try to actively avoid this frame of mind, it only drains the life out of you. This is just a suggestion, I apologise if it sounds bad or patronising - perhaps you could negotiate a bit and avoid drawing deadlines for treatment, it might put unnecessary pressure on you. DE is such a difficult decision, one that may have an impact for life. It is wise to shorten the process and not let things drag, as life cannot be on hold for too long. But you have to be gentle on yourself and act only when you are sure that you are ready. Sending you a big hug...

    Helen - sending you warm thoughts, I am awfully sorry to hear that your one embryo came back abnormal...

    I will try to catch up properly tomorrow.

    Sending everyone my very best... 

    Offline queenie123

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #229 on: 19/02/18, 00:02 »
    Lxp - Hi, just wanted to send you hugs too. 

    My personal opinion is it depends a lot on the sperm.  my DH's sperm are poor(ish) but there are normally just enough to get good fertilisation in a petri-dish.  Naturally we tried for years and keep trying in-between cycles.  I just think by the time you get to having tried for 36months then the probability of it happening naturally is very very small.   That doesn't mean it can't, and a lot of what you are doing for low AMH (gentle exercise, reduce stress, eat right and take supplements) will improve you egg quality.  AMH is produced by the granulosa cells and for some women it is also a marker of quality (I think this is more true if you have a high AFC but low AMH, than low both AFC and AMH).   I think personally that you need to look at each step of the puzzle, if you can make embryo's and grow them then a transfer is always going to give you better odds than trying naturally just coz you have already done half the job. 

    If you want to try naturally my advice would be to time it, spend what you would spend on an IVF cycle on a really nice romantic, wellness holiday for both of you and then hopefully you will give yourselves the best chance you can.

    You did really well to get 3 healthy on day 3.  There are loads of reasons they don't get to blast, and it sounds like they weren't perfect when they were transferred but you could definitely go again and you might have better luck next time??