* Author Topic: Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6  (Read 115085 times)

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Offline MA66

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Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
« Reply #80 on: 2/02/18, 18:06 »
Hi all.  I'm sorry to have been so quiet. I have been busy and trying to read your posts before posting but there's been so many I haven't managed to get to the posting bit before now!  Anyway, I am sorry this thread has moved so fast I haven't been able to keep up but I just wanted to say how sorry I am for your BFNs katkat2014 and Babyhopeful.  I know how awful it can be and I hope you have better luck next time.  Be kind to yourselves.  We are such strong women to put ourselves through this.

Thank you all for all of the information.  I learn so much from your posts.  I'm sorry I don't have much to add, you're all so much more experienced at this/knowledgeable than me.

Our initial consultation at CREATE went well so thank you for all of your advice/experience with that.  It's hard to leave ARGC and all their monitoring but I am convinced now that they are not the best in mild/natural IVF and we simply can't afford to keep cycling there.

I do have some questions if I can please pick your brains?
- no-one has ever suggested oestrogen priming before cycling to shut my ovaries down so the follicles grow at the same rate.  I have had one cycle where from 15 AFC I had only 5 follicles respond, the others mainly stuck at around 10 when the others were ready, and 3 eggs and another from 11 AFC, 4 follicles respond and 3 eggs so I've just been labelled a poor responder.  Is this something I should be looking at please and if so what are the drugs called that do this and when should they be taken?

- Annakay, can I please ask you about Bemfola if you know about that stim drug.  That is the stim that CREATE are going to use on me.  I've never heard of recombinant or urinals before.  Also you mentioned selenium for thyroid issues, what issues please?  My TSH is around 2.7 but CREATE say they won't give levo until its above 3.5.  Should I be concerned? Also what does letrozole do?  Is it the same as clomid?  I am hopefully about to start mild sims on 150 bemfola, next week should my cyst have gone or not producing oestrogen.

- at my scan in the initial consultation at CREATE they found that I still have a cyst (it was there last cycle too).  It's not huge, about 22mm but between ivf one and two I had cysts for 5 months before we could cycle again as the norethisterone did not work until month four.  Is there anything you can suggest for me to do or take to get rid of it?  I have endometriosis.

- do you know why CREATE might be pushing for ICSI.  I don't understand.  My husbands DNA fragmentation result is good to excellent, we've always been told his sperm samples have been good but CREATE are saying our fertilisation rates have not been good enough for regular IVF.  We got 1 from 3 eggs the first time, but they did say initially that all 3 eggs looked immature but then one did fertilise.  2/3 the second time although we actually did have 3/3 but one had two sperm in it so they had to stop it.  The third time 1/4 but ARGC said that two were immature so it was really 1/2.  Do you think this is bad and warrants ICSI?

- Sunshine122, congrats on your embryos, yay.  Do you mind me asking what stims you were on?  I've never had that many eggs even when starting with an AFC of 15!  Also do you mind me asking if you had ICSI?

- Has anyone ever used NVM?  I only heard about it for the first time last week at CREATE and thought it might help as we often have immature eggs but the nurse said it's not usually very successful!

- I am a little concerned about the lack of progesterone support at CREATE.  After our first transfer CRGH struggled to get my progesterone over 50 even though I was on cyclogest, crinone and lubion then switched to lentogest then switched to prontogest.  It was OK at ARGC but only after the addition of prontogest with the cyclogest.  They don't even do blood tests to check it at CREATE after transfer.  Although they have said they would if I would like.  I'm just worried it doesn't sound very on it.  Thoughts please?

- last question, what benefits does B6 have please?

Thank you, sorry for lots of questions, some have come about after reading your posts.  You ladies have so much knowledge.  I am so grateful and feel less alone in this scary world knowing that you are out there x

Thanks in advance.

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    Offline Sunshine122

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #81 on: 2/02/18, 18:15 »
    Babyhopeful and katkat, so so sorry to hear your news, itís the worst disappointment esp knowing how hard it is even to get to that stage. Good to hear you are already making plans babyhopeful, I always find it helps (along with the wine!) What clinic were you at this time? Agree with the other ladies though about getting your levels checked before taking DHEA as seen in some cases it can do more harm than good.

    Klik, sorry you have to cut your trip short but it will be worth it in the end.

    LXP, 8 eggs is fab!! Fingers crossed for your update tomorrow.

    Afm, AF started today (ouch) so back to the clinic tomorrow for my baseline to see if my ovaries have Ďbounced back.í  Still not sure if Iím doing the right thing with back to back cycles but I guess aslong as it doesnít lower egg quality I would rather just get my cycles over with so I can move on with my life either way. 

    Offline MA66

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #82 on: 2/02/18, 18:21 »
    Hi, I've just read the posts since starting writing my last post!

    LXP huge congrats on 8 eggs, wow!  Can I ask which clinic you are at and what drugs you took please?  FC for great fertilisation.

    Babyhopeful, I was told to take DHEA at CRGH without any tests.  I read up on it and got my gp to test my progesterone and it was very low so I took DHEA.  I had really bad acne from it, greasy hair and nightmares so I felt so tired and awful and then I read that it can exasperate endometriosis which I have so I stopped it.  Then when I went to ARGC they asked me not to take it as the consultant there said they believed it just gave a false reading for the true AMH.  So who knows!  I wasn't keen because the last thing I need is my endometriosis to be sped up.  I didn't know that tiredness and aching joints are a sign of low testosterone though and I definitely have that.  I'm always thinking I must be seriously ill because I'm just so tired!

    Offline Sunshine122

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #83 on: 2/02/18, 18:26 »
    MA66, iím also at create doing the 3 cycle package. My protocol last time starting on CD2 was 150 bemfola for 4 days, then switching to 225 menopur. Iíve also had poor fertilisation in previous cycles due to immature eggs, this time I had a double ovitrelle trigger and had a much better result with 4 out of 5 fertilising (with standard IVF).
    I asked about using letrozole which was apparently discussed at their weekly meeting and agreed that its not something they would be able to prescribe, which i thought a little strange as it seems such a popular protocol. So think we will be doing the same again this time. Anymore questions on create let me know and Iíll help you wherever I can xx

    Offline LXP

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #84 on: 2/02/18, 18:33 »
    Thank you ladies

    MA66 I'm at Oxford. I was on long protocol, synarel for down reg and then 375 gonal F for stimming. It took me an extra week for both down reg and stimming. I have been taking vitamin B complex cq10 and  pregnacare max.

    Offline MA66

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #85 on: 2/02/18, 19:13 »
    Thanks for the info Sunshine122 and LXP.  I didn't think low ovarian reserve ladies did down reg?  It obviously worked for you LXP!  It's never been suggested for me.

    It's so good to hear that you have found something that works for you both.  Sunshine122 the nurse prescribed me two Ovitrelle and when I questioned it she said we like you to have one in reserve so it sounds like they might have that up their sleeve for me!  They are starting me on 150 Bemfola too so lets see.  Thanks for your help.

    I'm considering back to back.  I read on here that there are studies that show it may be better for ladies with low ovarian reserve.  You may have posted that!  Do you know where the info came from?  I can't remember if I read it can produce better eggs or embryos or I guess its both!  I'm trying to decide so that I can plan better with work/friends and family as I have also cancelled so much over the last few years it would be good to have a plan.  In the past I've had cysts between cycles which have delayed things but then I was on 500 or 600 stims so I'm hoping this time with much less stims I might avoid the cysts.

    LXP what is the vit B for please? 

    Offline LXP

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #86 on: 2/02/18, 19:16 »
    It's my first cycle so think they wanted to see how I responded. I was told with my AMH they may not get any eggs so think they were as shocked as me! I took the vitamin B to increase the amount of folic acid and general energy.

    Offline LXP

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #87 on: 3/02/18, 07:56 »
    I am starting utrogestan today - any tips? The nurse just said start it today with no further explanation, but I have seen on here about lying down after etc?

    Happy Saturday everyone x

    Offline klik

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #88 on: 3/02/18, 09:35 »
    LXP: wow, 8 is a great haul! FX'ed for your fertilisation report today!

    Briss: thanks! I send you hugs. I hope you're holding up ok...

    Babyhopeful: I didn't know CRGH has a sister clinic... Different CRGH consultants have different attitudes, but hopefully yours will be willing to offer you at least some immune support. Technically I have had immunes testing but I feel like the conclusion would have been the same even if I hadn't... As for these strange bleeds, they might all be implantation bleed followed by chemical pregnancy, but they might also be hormonal. The pill sometimes hides hormonal changes as they occur... Did you test your progesterone around one of these strange bleeds?

    MA66: oestrogen priming would help both with even follicle growth and to suppress cysts, but in your case it's contra-indicated as oestrogen exacerbates endo. Norethisterone would be an option, and again it should help with both, but if it's not working for you then perhaps you should change tack. Have you tried long protocol? If you have 15 follicles, it might be worth trying. It's risky as sometimes it oversuppresses women and then takes 2 months or so to recover from, but I wouldn't expect that with someone who has a confirmed AFC of 10+... Did CRGH or ARGC never suggest that? In your place, I'd be tempted to try it... Otherwise you might want to look into whether the pill is ok to take for endo women, and you could perhaps take that for a week or so starting a week after ovulation. As for IVM, it's really intended for PCOS women, who produce loads of eggs, all immature. One doctor explained to me that the fertilisation rate for IVM eggs is the same as for in-utero matured eggs, but the pregnancy rate is much, much lower. Most clinics avoid the longer IVM for non-PCOS women (though most clinics are ok to do IVM overnight, just to help the egg along its very last step of maturation). And as for utrogestan, I've never seen any reason to lie down after taking it, and I certainly didn't back when I used to take it. What has been said recently about it is that Briss and katkat have both had unpleasant physical sensations while on it.

    Sunshine: thanks! I can vouch for back-to-back cycles personally, and one consultant said that sometimes the second cycle in a back-to-back yields more eggs (but not to count on it). My own personal experience is that 2 stim cycles in a row is a good idea, but with hindsight I'd have given myself a break on the 3rd cycle. I'd have done 2 on, 1 off. But each person is different, of course. As for natural cycle IVF, no reason not to do them back-to-back-to-back... Hope your appointment goes well!

    tily: I owe you an apology... I'm so paranoid about Asherman's now that I may have alarmed you without reason. Dr Trew was clear that only interventions on a pregnant uterus cause Asherman's, and of course that wasn't your case... So, phew, I can relax on your behalf, and I'll try to think before I type next time--I'm really sorry...

    Offline Briss

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    Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 6
    « Reply #89 on: 3/02/18, 09:37 »
    just a quick update, it was a very long cycle and very frustrating with lots of ups and downs. basically you know how when you get zero fertilisation news they always tell you to call again the next day in case of delayed fertilisation? I personally stopped calling cos it's no use. so i accepted no fertilisation and was trying to move only the next day on my way to work i got an email inviting me to come for ET in a couple of hours in Munich!! My first reaction was that it was some kind of cruel joke or mix-up. but no, it was for real, apparently they did see some development the day 2 after collection. obviously i could not make it that day so we schedule transfer for day 3 (my first day 3 transfer!). but i also got a call from the doc who told me not to get my hopes up as it was a slow fertilisation and slow development but there was a chance. anyway on my transfer the embryo looked rather odd, i could not see any cells and in the report they would not even grade it :( but i got a picture that was done 3 hours before the transfer and i could count 3 maybe even 4 cells, but they were different sizes, although there was no fragmentation. tested today on 11 dpo but it's a clear bfn. not surprised but it still hurts. am not going to retest for me FRER on 11 dpo is conclusive. if there was any better it would have picked it up. but i will do bloods to confirm as Munich only accepts bloods. i stopped progesterone because i want to give my next cycle a chance. at the moment just trying to observe what happened, i carry discovering new ways how my cycles can fail...

    on the negative side, i keep wondering if frozen sperm was to blame for slow fertilisation/development? our numbers were really bad after freezing.

    on a plus side, both eggs were mature! i am relieved actually because it means my previous immature collections were most likely due to timing issues than egg quality. it was a good thing we delayed collection until the afternoon. now i need to accept the risk of immaturity on top my usual risk of losing the egg. it seems like this time around it takes longer between LH surge and collection.

    i think i am going pop at that Ali pharmacy next week and stock up on cetrotide...

    very long cycles, am exhausted.