Reprofit cycle buddies (orange knicker gang) part 17

[Claire58]

Hi ladies, how is everyone doing?
So we’ve just arrived back from Brno after our second EC (4th trip there). Not the best experience tbh but extremely glad to be home! This morning our 5 day report shows 2 x Compact morula +.
Obviously we are absolutely gutted and not really sure what went wrong this time, we took extra supplements, followed diet advice etc etc...
First EC 6 follicles in scan, 5 eggs retrieved 3 X HB 1 X XB.
This time upped Gonal slightly, 19 follicles on scan, 7 retrieved, 5 mature, 3 dropped off day 4.
I’m guessing the remaining 2 won’t be frozen as they are too far behind. I wondered if this has ever happened to anyone before? Whilst we were there I had panel test and immunology because after our first round 2 transfers failed and remaining embryos after testing were abnormal and mosaic, we refroze the mosaic to keep as a last chance option. Because of Covid DH was asked to do “his collection” at the hotel and bring it to the clinic within an hour, we were there within 15 mins and tried to give it immediately to the receptionist. The receptionist I’d not seen there before, couldn’t have been less helpful. We asked twice could we please give the sample to someone and she kept saying just sit down and wait whilst muttering under her breathe and huffing every time any customers dared to ask her a question. In the end I grabbed a passing doctor and told him to take it, he was lovely and he did. Everyone else was fab on the day but we had several issues but I won’t bother going into them. The reason I mention this is that I worry that the sample had been waiting around for over an hour at this point but surely it needed to be as fresh as possible? We had ICSI and MACS so in theory it should have been the best sperm used? Is it true that the sperm takes over at day 3 or is this a myth? DH had teratozoospermia listed on our first report which I questioned recently but was told it wasn’t an issue and that my eggs are just old 😫 Has anyone ever had these sort of issues and then ever had future good embryos? I’m not ready to give up on my eggs just yet but should I be more realistic at 38? Also does anyone have any experience with Lupron and Endometriosis? I’ve seen a lot about Lupron but not really sure what it does?
 We are thinking of getting some advice from several different clinics before we go back as I’ve no idea what to do next, has anyone done this and have clinics been happy to give the advice even if you may not choose to have treatment with them? Obviously we are happy to pay for consultations.
I really hope all you lovely ladies are doing ok, it’s such a difficult time at the moment.
Hugs to all xx

[FertilityFriends]

[Saltysea]

Hi Claire

We also had one cycle where we only had 2 compacted morula to show for it at the end and ended up being a BFN. The next cycle a few months later, exact same protocol, we had 3 blasts, two 4AA and one 3BB. I really thinks it's just luck of the draw, we changed nothing as I'm more a believer in 'pick the best plan and just keep trying' than 'if something doesn't work, change the plan'. My husband also had teratozoospermia in his first test, no-one ever seemed concerned that it affected our chances, even with trying naturally and when we retested a year later with no lifestyle changes or vitamins etc. (we already live and eat pretty healthy) his result was normal. DNA fragmentation was also good on his sperm which I found reassuring (maybe get that tested?).
Yes, healthy sperm needs to fertilise the egg (if doing IVF) and then affects the quality of the embryo after day 3. Day 1-3 is all about only the egg quality. I also believe IVF is easier on the egg than ICSI as long as the sperm is good enough to fertilise the egg, we only ever did IVF and always had really good fertilisation rate (over 75%) despite the supposed 'teratozoospermia'.

You are 38 (not over 40) and do produce a decent amount of eggs and you made blasts on your last cycle and your husband has decent sperm, I would also just keep trying if you have the financial and psychological resources... it will work eventually. Donor eggs will probably get you there faster but if you still have the resources to keep trying, I believe your chances are very good. I have been very happy with the Lister and they definitely would give an initial consult (can't remember the price) and you can even do it telephonically. You would not be under obligation to cycle with them, just say you need time to think about it. Of course you run the risk of the advice between clinics clashing which is never a good idea. I think it's very important to pick a clinic you can trust and then just let them do the job you are paying them for. I did a ton of research before picking the Lister and it was worth all the time and money as I have been able to trust them through this whole difficult process and it has made things so much easier than when you keep second-guessing the doctor or clinics management. It has been absolutely essential for me to believe in the ethos of the clinic and their motives and it was the best move I ever made. Some clinics will try and get you pregnant at any cost, at any risk, at any treatment-mix, others are only interested in their statistics or maximising their profit.

[Claire58]

Thanks do much for your reply Saltysea I really appreciate it and you’ve made me feel better so thank you!
I think you’re absolutely right about clinics, you have to be confident in them and I think it can be far more difficult if you are not 100%.
I shall definitely get in contact with Lister about a consultation at least x

[queenie123]

Hi, Claire,

I had 5 cycles at brno - not a single cycle resulted in a embryo which progressed beyond d3.   They wouldn't freeze or transfer earlier and ours never/rarely made it to blast.   Brno didn't work for me.  They have been sucessful for lots of women, but I don't know what it is, perhaps it's the embryo hanedelling or protocol, but I don't understand why they would just die at d3 at Reprofit but grow (all be it poorly) at other clinics. 

I have had 14 IVF cycles in total, 5 at Brno, 6 at Serum and 3 at Create (London).   Each clinic is different and does things differently, you need to find what works for you. 

I am presently 14wks pregnant after a d3 transfer from Serum (Athens) - don't give up, sucess is a mixture of persistance, and also finding the right 'fit' in terms of clinic.

[Claire58]

Thank you queenie123! Oh my goodness what a truly strong amazing lady you are...and very experienced, I really appreciate your reply and you sharing your journey!
Huge congratulations with your success after such a long journey!! It’s ladies like you that give me faith to keep on going 💪
It’s a strange one because it’s not necessarily that I don’t trust my Dr and I’m really aware that at Reprofit you really have to manage your own journey, push for tests and protocols etc which I’m ok with but there’s is only such much research I can do myself, I’m no doctor and I don’t always know what to push for exactly? At some point you need strong advice based on the vast experience of the clinic. You are right, it’s more of a “is it the right fit for me” kinda thing.
I have the willing to do whatever it takes and keep going, but time is never on our side is it 😞
How did you find your overall experience with Serum (only if you don’t mind me asking), were they a little more hands on that Reprofit? X

[queenie123]

Serum is not particulalry hands on - it doesn't work for everyone,  if you need a lot of monitoring I wouldn't recomened it.  If your cycles are more predictable - then go for it.  I didn't need a lot of monitoring or intensive protocol, for me less was more and I needed a lower stims, fewer eggs, higher egg quality approach - Serum specialises in this, and older women.

They do have a special sperm selection protocol which is unique to them so if you have sperm issues it might be worth considering - they don't use MACS they say the magnets can damage the sperm.   Also Reprofit always 'clean' the eggs, which means they never do natural, only ISCI, and I just think my eggs are very fragile and need extremely gentle handelling,  this current pregnancy is from a natural fertilisation with serum's sperm selection protocol.

I work in public health so I do have some background knowledge, and don't mind sharing experience - but your issues might be different to mine.   I started at 32, I am now 37 - it has taken us 5yrs to have those cycles.

I know what you mean about having consults with top clinics, because they point you in the right direction. - I had a consult with Lister in 2016 when we were first on our journey, but decided not to go with them becuase I have v low amh and needed a more natural approach, and I also realised that our resources were better spent on more cycles.  I had a consult with CRGH during lockdown becuase I was considering using another London clinic due to travel restrictions - it was really helpful, they were able to interprit my immune results, and encouraged me to get my boarderline thyroid stabalised, and made me check my thrombophillia results - which has proved to be essential for me now in maintaing the pregnancy,  I would recomened Dr Ozturk.   I couldn't have afforded to go with them for any if many cycles, but I do think the money I spend on that 1 consult contributed to our journey and was money well spent.

Reprofit's approach works for many ladies - how many cycles have you tried with them?  I like Dr Otrivell, he was good -  (unless you are doing a natural cycle).

[Claire58]

Thank you so much! It’s really useful to hear others stories and bounce ideas around.
I don’t think I need monitoring a lot at this point particularly, although I may find out differently when I receive my tests back. Reprofit are great in that I have never felt pushed into anything or pushed to have tests or extras we don’t need but sometimes a few recommendations would be helpful. This is my second cycle and I’ve had 2 failed FET’s at this point so I’m not extremely knowledgeable, I definitely learn something knew every day. I guess from my egg collection results it would show less is more maybe for me? I’m glad you mentioned ICSI as I wasn’t sure why we needed it particularly from the start? DH has a child from a previous relationship and there has never been any reason for us to think there could be a problem with his sperm, only now had we even thought about it because of the embryo results. We are both relatively fit healthy within BMI expectations, we don’t drink except on rare occasions, the only problem we know we have is my endo and I’ve had my Fallopian tubes removed to try to help with IVF. I am expecting some inflammatory issues, I have endo on my bowel which causes extreme bloating and pain. I didn’t know Reprofit cleaned the eggs, I guess keeping things as natural as possible can only be beneficial. I make the mistake of assuming if something isn’t working that I need more, more drugs etc.
I will have a look into CRGH definitely, thank you! I know Reprofit does work for many and maybe they may work for us, and I haven’t given them enough chances yet as it’s only our 2nd cycle. I have Dr Hana who in my experience has always been good. My  concern is that do Reprofit work because of DE cycles? I find them to have a kind of “one size fits all” approach to protocols and I feel because we are so individual in our needs surely we need individual plans and protocol? Although I understand on a first cycle that it has to be treated carefully and sort of used as a test to see how we fare.
Thanks so much you’ve given me some good stuff to think about! X 

[queenie123]

The reason I like Dr Otevrel is because when the 'one size fits all approach' didn't work with me, he tried to find another way, and his suggestions were evidence based and sensible tayloring of his approach to my situation - didn't work, but that doesn't mean i don't value his knoweldge/experience and advice.   The protocol he recomended had a lot of positive rational behind it.

I don't know anyone who has been to reprofit for endo, so there may be more specialised clinics for that - maybe there are other people on here who do know.  I would suggest you get it looked into, and a hysteroscopy before your next transfer.

A telephone consult with serum is free - and if you have uterine issues they are also v good and they are currently exempt from quarentine.

[Claire58]

Thank you, can you request to change doctors? Would it be considered inappropriate for me to do that at this stage do you think? I have met him once before and he seemed very good!
That sounds like some really good advice you have given there, I hadn’t thought of a hysteroscopy at all but it would definitely make sense to have one x