* Author Topic: Praying for a 2nd miracle - ICSI #8  (Read 29906 times)

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Offline Lanee

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I am feeling so crappy the more I think about what has happened. I am scared that this is the end of the road. Realistically Iím over 40 and I donít know if another round of ICSI will be successful to be honest. I just had a look on the over 40s thread and success with OE are few and far between.

Iím so so sad because I had thought we took all the right steps back in 2018 to prepare for a potential sibling knowing that I am getting on in age. I insisted on a fresh cycle instead of frozen so that we would have a PGD normal frostie. But all that planning has gone to dust soooo quickly in my very first cycle back. Iím just devastated and looking for someone or something to blame. Should I have gone with my gut feel and just not proceeded with transfer? Would the outcome have been different next month? Is it the clinic Iím with that is not great at handling my eggs or embryos as I have just had so much go wrong there I donít know why I stick with it.

And I had to scream at the nurses today to get my FS to call me back and then of course I missed the call 🤦🏻‍♀️😥 they told me my bloods are not at baseline and to come back on Monday to redo them. I was like wtf?! Monday is so far away I would have completely missed this cycle and there goes my last chance.

I started to feel better this evening thinking that maybe I will do more cycles mid next year and keep trying until I turn 42 and make that my cut off. But then I started reading a thread about success over 40 and I think there were only 2 people who had success and definitely not on their first cycle. It just hit me again the reality of my chances ... very slim. Am feeling so upset that I really may not have another baby. Sorry my posts are getting so repetitive and depressing but I just need to get it off my chest to stay sane at this point.


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    Offline Lanee

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    Trying for #2... onto ICSI #8
    « Reply #141 on: 15/10/20, 07:53 »
    Itís been a crazy week the past week..

    Thursday 8th (6dp5dt) - My FS finally called me back and to be honest Iíve lost confidence in her. She said she didnít know why my period arrived so early. And said she really wanted to give me a call and thatís why she tried to call me the evening before ... even though I know that is a blatant lie as I had to scream at 3 people before she called me. She then asked me to rush in for a blood test so we could decided whether I could start another cycle straight away. It was such a stressful morning as of course DH had the car with the baby seat so I had to leave baby boy home at short notice with my mum (who doesnít really feel confident to look after him by herself).The plan was that if my progesterone was still high, Iíd start a long cycle but if it was low, my only option would be to proceed with a short cycle. The FS did plant a seed though that if I could stay longer in Oz , we could do a proper long cycle and try and replicate the successful cycle I had with baby boy but my thinking was that even if I can stay longer, Iíd want to do 2x short cycles so that I would have 2 chances for transfer. Anyway, it turned out that my progesterone was low so we made plans to start a short cycle since at that point in time I didnít know if I could stay in Oz longer.

    Friday 9th - went in for another blood test (3rd day in a row) to make sure my hormones were at baseline and pick up meds. For some reason, I decided to take baby boy with me and then happened to see my FS in the office. So I asked the receptionist if I could pop in to let her meet baby boy but actually with the secret desire to hit her up on a tonne of questions I had about our plan. In the end, she basically wasnít open to any of my suggestions to add Saizen or DHEA but we did discuss that if I could stay longer in Oz, she still recommends that I do a Long cycle , not 2x short cycles. Honestly at that point in time though, my gut feel was still sooo strong to do a short cycle. I was still waiting to hear back from my boss whether I could stay longer so that was also a factor but all day Friday I basically researched Long vs short cycle success rates and looked back at my old results. In the end my boss came through and said I could stay longer and there were a few studies that indicated the long cycle was more successful for women over 40 so after a stressed out 2 days, I finally decided to go ahead and replicate the long cycle. I figured it also gave me a chance to add supplements for 1 month before going to egg retrieval.

    So there you have it! Iím back at square 1 for attempt at baby #2 ... heading into my 8th ICSI cycle and seriously what are the chances that Iím hit the jackpot first time around this time??  :(  Iím not feeling hopeful and am feeling very anxious and depressed to be honest.

    As I read more about experiences of women 40+, so many have had to do 4-5 cycles just to get one normal embryo. And I canít believe I started with 2 normal ones and am left with none and starting from scratch again. And I feel like Iím one of the very few who has had my embryo not survive the thaw. Itís just so hard to wrap my brain around this. And with all this bad luck, how likely is it that we will get lucky with the next cycle and 40.5 years of age??

    Definitely in a negative head space and feeling more and more worried and stressed the more I read about other peopleís experiences. Iím also worried that something has changed in my uterus post baby. Not sure why I got my period so early and the bleeding was very different this time around. It was also hard for the FS to get the catheter in so I wonder if that provoked something too.

    Honestly I donít know what to do ... I mean itís out of my hands really and I can only try one more time and then hope that it is successful first time or at least COVID resolves and I can travel to try again. Iím not ready to give up yet to have baby #2 even though I do sometimes worry about DH and I being too old - if we keep trying until Iím 42, DH will be 44 by then and I know a lot of older parents are out there but it is pretty scary to think about how old we will be.

    Iím also a little scared about our plan to have a day 3 transfer. Part of me knows that getting to a tested embryo on day 5 is both hard to achieve and now from my own experience I know there are no guarantees it will even implant. But at the same time, with the day 3 transfer, we risk having an abnormal embryo implant and having a miscarriage or bringing a child into the world who may suffer because we so desperately pushed for another baby. Just so many scary thoughts in my head. Of course I just hope we will be successful and be able to bring another healthy baby into the world and I know I need to get focused on that.

    So today, Iíve started taking chicken essence again, ubiquinol, melatonin, vitamin D and have booked in to see someone for acupuncture next week. Thinking to also add fish oil and vitamin C & E. Need to really get myself into gear for this last chance cycle!

    Offline Lanee

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    omg, I just typed the longest post and accidentally closed the window and lost it :( But anyway, it was very therapeutic to type out all my feelings so I guess I'll do my best to replicate my rant  ;D


    It's been 2 weeks already since my BFN and the disappointment and bubbles of anger/bitterness are still there. I've been beating myself up for being too blasť heading into the FET. I didn't take any supplements, didn't change my diet, didn't do acupuncture. The list goes on and I suppose I went in overconfident with having 2 normal embryos thinking if the first time didn't work, I still had a second chance. It has really been a tough tough pill to swallow that I'm back to square 1 and now at a much older age. If I knew I'd be in this position, there would be so many things I could have/would have changed. I wish I had of done the transfer earlier and just sacrificed 1 or 2 months of breastfeeding to do it. I wish I had of cancelled this cycle when I had the bad feeling about it. But at the same time, I guess everything happens for a reason and we just don't know why.

    I also managed to talk to my FS again this week and unfortunately it didn't make me feel any better about her. I had asked her whether I need to do anything about the cyst on my ovary and whether I could do NK cell testing or any other tests to see if something went wrong. She again dismissed everything. In fact, when I asked her about the NK cells, she said "I don't think we should do that because if they do come back high, you will want to treat it and there are risks associated with suppressing your immune system including for the baby." It was a bit like ... huh? well of course I'd want to treat it if they are high. But why not test and just know if it is an issue or not? So my confidence in her is not getting any higher.

    In fact, it has made me reflect back on all my cycles and I feel like she has made so many missteps and bad advice along the way. For example, she told me not to remove my hydrosalpinx and let's get some embryos frozen first. Well, 3 cycles later, I still didn't have any embryos frozen and had to get the hydrosalpinx removed anyway. She was worried that I might risk my ovary by having the hydrosalpinx removed so wanted to do a cycle first. But when I spoke with other specialists, none of them were concerned and said they would preserve the blood supply to the ovary. So needless to say, I didn't go ahead with my FS for the removal and chose someone else to do it. Then, I don't know why but I went ahead and did more cycles with her. The next 2 cycles, again she pushed me to get to day 5 embryos. And of course, I didn't have success. I don't know why she thought it would be different after I'd already tried for 3 cycles! Finally, I pushed her to do a day 3 transfer and was finally successful (even though she was not happy about doing it!).

    With the FET, I just thought it would be easier to go with her since I thought it would be more straightforward. In hindsight, I wish we had of done a medicated one rather than a natural one so things were more controlled. I wish I had of listened to my gut and not proceeded with the transfer given I wasn't confident with the timing nor my lining. I wish for so many things of course but there is nothing I can change now and I do need to let it go ... though I am finding that extremely hard!

    So here I am ... heading into cycle #8, proceeding with a FS whom I don't feel great about. I'm trying to pretend I'm ok with her and just going along with it as I want her to do her very best for me. But in the meantime, I've made an appointment with another FS. Unfortunately I couldn't get in with her until after I start this cycle.

    I'm also feeling like a total vitamin junkie with all the vitamins I've been popping. Really hoping they will help in some way to improve my egg quality especially given my age.   I also had my first acupuncture session last week but am going to try and find another acupuncturist this week. I think she is ok - seems to know what she is doing but she was a little dodgy with the payment. She didn't want to give me a receipt for the full amount of the acupuncture and nor did she want to submit to my health fund the full amount either. She also made me do a full consultation first before getting me back a second time for the acupuncture. When I walked in for the acupuncture, she said "so, what are you here for today" and I was like ... "um... acupuncture for IVF"... like did you forget that you saw me just 2 days ago and we spoke for 1 hour about all my history. It was so weird. So I'm going to see if I can get in with someone else ...

    Sigh ... it's been hard to get into a positive mindset. Really really need to find some hope and positivity in the next couple of weeks. Blood test to start Synarel is supposed to be this Wednesday so hopefully once I start the meds, I can be even more focused.

    I also need to stay off the social media IVF groups - reading the stories are making me feel hopeful (sometimes, maybe 10% of the time), really worried and scared (all the negative results, miscarriages, tough experiences people have gone through  :( ) and also a bit angry & depressed about my failed FET (especially when I read about successful transfers with PGD normal embryos or how women are trying 8 cycles at my age to just get 1 PGD normal embryo ... and to think I had 2 and they are gone!!!) (As you can tell, I'm really really not over my failed cycle this time around ... so so hard).

    Offline Lanee

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    Iíve been wanting to update my diary for so many days now so will have to catch you up on the crazy last few days.

    went in for my blood tests and was given the go ahead for Synarel. Was starting to feel frustrated not just with my FS but also the nursing team as I had emailed them on Sunday and come Tuesday they still hadnít called me back to confirm my blood test time for the next day. It just felt like maybe there was bad mojo or Iíve been struck off as a bad patient for being too demanding ... Iím sure itís just me overthinking it but I wasnít too happy about it.

    I had made an appointment a couple of weeks back for a second opinion with a doctor (Dr M) who seems to have a lot more patients 40+ and seems to have patients who really love her. Her lovely assistant had squeezed me in 2 weeks earlier as I had explained I was starting a cycle soon as luckily it was only day 2 of Synarel. Anyway, the consult went really well - first of all, she spent over 1h with me and went through all my past 7 cycles + 1 FET in detail. She was a lot more open to trying different things - willing to do a blood test to check for natural killer cells and just rule out anything. Seemed more knowledgeable about supplements and recommended a whole host. And just seemed more willing to work hard for me. E.g. I want to do a mock transfer as my last transfer didnít go smoothly and my current FS Dr K was like ... we could do one now I suppose or I can do one during egg collection. Dr M said she didnít want to risk it at egg collection as placing it into the uterus so close to transfer wasnít a good idea which totally made sense to me. Sheís also willing to try HGH (Saizen) which Dr K had scoffed at and said ... you donít want that ... itís what athletes/body builders use. It was a little challenging to switch doctors given my cycle has started but she said it was possible.

    Another difference was with the trigger and my level of late maturing eggs I normally get. Dr K always dismissed this and said it wasnít an issue for me but Dr M did acknowledge that it seemed like a high number vs mature eggs at retrieval. She wants to tweak the protocol so that I can hopefully use more trigger and maybe extend the time to collection by an hour or so. (I actually confessed to her I had tried to up my trigger myself and increase the time slightly by doing it 30mins earlier but she said it needs to be more like 1h or more).

    Post the call, I got a little bit of cold feet about changing so many things vs my successful cycle 2 years ago. Do I stay with the tried and eventually successful but somewhat recent negative feeing or do I go ahead with a new doctor who seems more willing to try different things? Iím nervous that adding HGH might actually impact the outcome negatively. And Iím nervous that triggering early might result in me ovulating and losing all the eggs. And lastly, Iím nervous about adding Luveris (LH) to the cycle as when I used Menopur, I had a bad response vs just using Gonal F without any LH added.

    In the end, after some some ladies in a social media group shared  that they did try and replicate their successful cycle and it didnít work and also some positive feedback on Dr M (and my lovely DH saying the right thing to me about going with my gut! Even though I think he wanted me to stay with Dr K), I decided to make the switch.

    So after 8 treatment cycles and consulting with Dr K from all the way back in 2011 through to active cycles throughout 2017-2018 (including issues with vials of sperm having lost labels and helping me through the DS process), Iíve followed my gut and shifted.

    And so far, I havenít regretted it from a care perspective. Dr Mís assistant is great and they are already doing all they can to squeeze me in for the NKC blood test, for the mock transfer (both planned for next week) and the new nursing team sounds great (gave me a direct phone number). I just feel like itís a more well oiled team who know what they are doing and genuinely want to help you in every way they can. I hope it helps make the difference.

    Started to feel some hot flushes in the evening from the Synarel. Donít remember it starting this early in the past so hope everything is ok and Iím not going to be over-suppressed.

    Spent the day trying to hunt down all the supplements that Dr M recommended. For reference... here is the list:
    - recommended to replace my current prenatal with a brand called Tresos Eagle
    - Add EPA DHA by Bioceuticals
    - Vit E 500IU
    - Spectrumceuticals Pro8 (probiotic) I found this interesting as I had asked to do an ERA but she mentioned I wasnít at that stage of needed to go through that and also that as part of the ERA they can check your endometrial flora/microbiome to see if itís in balance. She said a few of her patients then started adding a prebiotic and saw a change in their microbiome in a positive way so I could just skip the test and take the probiotic.
    - NAD 1000mg ... this is the only one that has me completely stumped. I wasnít sure if she had a typo and it should be 100 as 1000 seems very high and now Iíve gone down a rabbit hole learning about NAD and still unsure whether to take NR or NMN (two different precursors I think that help you produce NAD). She said this is an emerging area but it canít harm to take it.

    CD24 (today) - felt quite a few hot flushes today. Yuck! Hope it doesnít get any worse and had acupuncture with a different person today. He didnít seem as good as the first person I went to as he didnít know much about IVF but he does seem to know where the acupressure points are. I might alternate between the two - stick with the lady who is very knowledgeable about IVF (but dodgy with the private health fund claims) and go to this one more from an overall health perspective (he seemed more focused on treating my anxiety - even though I didnít tell him I was anxious).

    Anyway, so all caught up now. Iím feeling more positive about the path forward. Letís see how things go.

    Offline Lanee

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    CD 25 - Day 5 down regulation

    Oh man, the hormones are hitting me hard this time. Feeling like a right grump this morning and everything is getting on my nerves. Had the best of intentions to go for a walk but by the time I got out of the house with baby, it has started to rain so that was a total fail. Sat outside for a while just to get out but my mum texted me the weather for today telling me to come home. That totally got on my nerves. The hot flushes have continued and I have had light headache which has been there since around day 2 of down reg. I seriously donít think I had these side effects in the past so not sure what is going on. Does it mean my body is weaker or something is different from 2 years ago? I guess I will find out at my blood test this Thursday.

    Offline Lanee

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    CD28 - Day 8 Down Reg

    What an eventful day. Started the day off with acupuncture and this acupuncturist is really really growing on me! It's just super relaxing as she does a little bit of massage as well and the needles seem to be placed in the right spots. I then went to pick up some vitamins that Dr M had recommended and was happily reassured by the naturopath there who asked me who prescribed the vitamin and said that whomever they are must really know their stuff. Always good to have an extra vote of confidence.

    But as I left the store, I suddenly realized I wasn't holding my car keys anymore! I quickly went back to the acupuncturist as I was sure that if I had left it somewhere it would be there but it wasn't! :-[  I the high tailed it back to the vitamin store and my keys weren't there either! Panic was starting to set in! Next stop was backtracking all the way to my car (which to my relief hadn't been stolen) and still couldn't locate it. I was frantically trying to think when was the last time I had seen it?! I retraced my morning's steps all over again and just as I was about to go into full panic mode, I suddenly felt something tucked into the elastic waistband of my leggings. OMG - the keys had been on me the whole time but I had totally forgotten I had just popped them there.

    Anyway, after lunch, we took baby boy to the beach for the first time and had a really nice time there and I tried to find my zen again. But just as we were leaving the beach, I noticed baby boy's face and legs had broken out in hives. I have no idea what caused it but it sent me into a panic again as I wasn't sure how bad it was going to progress and whether I should take him to the doctor. Luckily it settled down over the course of the car ride home.

    I then tried to have a nice relaxing and fun bath with baby boy to regain my zen for the third time. But just as i was about to put him to bed, he ran and tripped and managed to hit his head on the coffee table really hard and had a big gash above his eye. Poor little thing was sobbing and my heard broke a little for him (even though he is totally fine) ... but as you can imagine, lost my calm relaxing feeling again!

    So now sitting on the couch, munching on chocolate and trying to chill. Phew! What a day!  ;D

    Offline Lanee

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    CD30 - Down reg day 10

    So AF hasnít arrived yet and I havenít seen any signs of it yet. Hopefully on the weekend so we can get cracking with this cycle.

    Yesterday I met Dr M for the first time and she was lovely and super patient again. I had bloods taken (there were so many vials! Perhaps 10!) and I did a mock transfer which all went smoothly. It made me feel better about everything and that Dr M has at least become more familiar with my body before the actual transfer.

    Today we took baby boy to the zoo for the first time and it was great! Iíve really enjoyed the past 3 days off - wish I could take more time off as my body still feels tired from lack of sleep and rest between work, taking care or baby boy and mentally dealing with my mum who just gets on my nerves a lot. I always worry a lot and itís definitely hard to find my zen & relax. Anyway - happy weekend! 2 more days to chill! Yay!

    Offline Lanee

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    CD31 - down reg day 11

    Still no sign of AF. The past few days off work have done me good - feeling more relaxed even though Iím feeling really tired. Baby boy keeps waking up at 5.30am/6am and Iím not good at getting myself to bed before 11.30pm (Iíve always been a night owl). So it is taking a toll on my body with the lack of sleep.

    Good news though is that I feel my hormones have settled or perhaps my body has adjusted now to the Synarel. Iím still getting hot flushes but the moodiness has gone and Iím feeling a lot more tolerant. Iíve also gotten used to the hot flushes so I guess Iím noticing them less.

    Feeling more positive about this cycle. Really glad I changed FS even if itís just to get me into a positive mindset and feeling like Iíve done everything I can. Fingers crossed and praying it all goes smoothly.

    One more day off before Iím back to the grind!

    Offline Lanee

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    Day 4 Stimms

    AF finally arrived on Monday (CD33) so Iím finally under way. Itís been a crazy few days after taking 3 days off last week, work has been super hectic.

    The first 3 days of Gonal F I really felt it - headaches, a little bit dizzy and have been emotional generally this round. But luckily today Iím feeling better (maybe from the acupuncture this morning).

    This round Iíve now added the Saizen (started from day 2) - hoping I wonít gain too much weight from it and hoping it helps with quality. Wish I had also researched it more as it seems you should prime with it before the cycle for it to have the most benefit. And I started the Luveris today too. Itís definitely rough doing 3 injections a night compared to past cycles where Iíve only needed 1. Think Iím going to run out of sites on my belly soon 😅

    Looking forward to the blood test tomorrow to get an early indication of how things are going. Fingers crossed for a positive result.

    Anyway need to sleep more so best head to bed! Have been meaning to post an entry since Day 1 of stimms but itís just been crazy busy.

    Offline Lanee

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    Trying for #2
    « Reply #149 on: 13/11/20, 12:46 »
    Day 5 Stimms

    So, I had my blood tests today and it's made me worried. It seems like age really does have an impact on how my body is responding. My estrogen was only 343 when usually it is over 1000. I've increased the Gonal F from 275 to 300 tonight so hopefully it will help a little. I do feel like the medications are giving me stronger side effects this time around - headaches, ovaries feel like they are twinging a little ...so thought they might be signs things were happening but was disappointed to see my estrogen so low. I guess I will need to wait until Monday's scan to see how many follicles are growing. Really hope it will be ok ... will be awful if I don't even get any eggs  :(

    One lovely thing that happened though is my new FS tried to call me tonight to tell me she is ok for me to increase the Gonal F... my previous FS would never have bothered so I super appreciate that she did that. I just feel she cares a little more. She also mentioned one of my blood test results is borderline and that she will add Clexane post transfer. Will find out more next week as I actually missed her call and just listened to the voicemail.

    Anyway, best get some rest and see if these follicles will grow more  ^pray^