* Author Topic: Early Pregnancy Thread  (Read 62578 times)

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Offline Londonwriter

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Early Pregnancy Thread
« Reply #890 on: 22/08/19, 16:41 »
thank you wobblytulip for also offering helpful advice, yes it does seem the nhs are very limted of course I know they have no money etc so it really is very basic care as yesterday proved!

To be honest, reading the conversation you had with your consultant, I don't think you'd get anything different going private. I'm seeing an NHS consultant privately and my appointments are very similar to what you describe. At the last one, he took a quick look at Grape on a scanner (no measurements, just saw he was moving about and had a normal heartbeat), did a urine test and booked me for some routine booking bloods. I phoned with my immune panic and he just told me via his secretary that he wasn't worried about a 99.8 degrees F temperature and I should take paracetamol because it was safe. Likewise, with my last pregnancy, I felt completely ripped off on behalf of my parents-in-law who were paying until I actually gave birth (when it was amazing having the same consultant for antenatal as for the delivery, and the delivery was really well handled).

The big difference has been in the quality of the scanning and testing (e.g. NIPT). I got the sex of the child off my NIPT test and the combined test was a lot more accurate than the NHS one. I had those scans and tests done at the Fetal Medicine Centre and The Birth Company in London. IUGR and placental inadequacy are obvious if you have regular(ish) scans as - to my knowledge - they typically develop quite slowly. My consultant is keen to do a few extra scans with me because these things are also possible complications of autoimmune diseases and we're not sure of the nature of the condition I have.

yes thank you ive heard of dr gorgy a lot on here sounds like he really knows his stuff and has great knowledge and experience and sounds like you can place your trust in him, its great you have found him to help manage and deal with your complex immune issues, that's really interesting he offers scans for blood flow, I wil have to google that and prices I think

I've not had a scan with Dr Gorgy. I didn't know he did blood flow scans. I surprised that his equipment is better than the NHS given he's mostly a fertility clinic and you don't need ultra high-resolution scanners to look at the ovaries.

It might be worth a telephone consultation to see if you can get a recommendation for baby aspirin or - in extremis - a prescription for clexane. You can pick up baby aspirin at Boots and it costs peanuts. I was on 70mg throughout my last pregnancy. It probably won't do you any harm if you don't need it. A consultation will cost about £230. I doubt he's going to know much about PAPP numbers, however, because he's a fertility doctor and not an obstetrician.

Alternatively, you could try a private pregnancy clinic. I did my scans at the Women's Wellness Centre in SW London in my last pregnancy and they do a couple of reassurance/wellbeing packages in pregnancy with extra scans and a follow-up after each scan with a midwife (https://www.womenswellnesscentre.com/healthcare-packages/). They range between £400 and £895 for everything (scans and follow-up). This might help keep your mind at rest about the blood flow issues and anything else that comes up. It's not unreasonable to do that - IVF pregnancies are more precious because most people don't need to pay to have kids, and they're also a minority of births (about 1% in the UK).

I wil try to find a regular private scan locally just to see if its already too late and what we are dealing with here if they can find out more and go from there but I really honestly feel its going to be bad news ive honestly just had this really awful dread and bad feeling al along something is wrong I told my clinic that all along that's why im just so anxious but no one seems to believe me lol

I'd seriously consider getting a fetal heart monitor. You're told not to get one because it can provide false reassurance, but I think it does help with the frivolous 'aggghhh, is my baby still there?' moments. I have the advantage of it being a second pregnancy so I can feel the foetus moving around a lot earlier than with my DS. That and the fetal heart monitor have really helped my peace of mind over the last few days, with the immune flare. It's just been nice to have a search for Grape with the scanner, and also to sit quietly and wait to feel him.

yes I can imagine dr gorgys clinic woulds be very costly due to his expertise you can imagine to have to pay high amounts for that im about 1.5 hours by train from London we aren't a rich family though, it is purely through a family inheritance

I wouldn't over-blow Dr Gorgy's likely expertise in dealing with pregnancy problems. His expertise is in testing women for very rare causes of recurrent miscarriage and IVF failure, such as running karyotype tests.

On the complex immune issues thing, he isn't a immunologist and doesn't pretend to be. He just looks at the Chicago tests and works out which of about three medications he wants to give based on the numbers, which is also what ARGC do. He's better than ARGC because he has more experience treating ladies with autoimmune disease and because he actually speaks to his patients (I shouldn't need to specify that, but Dr Taranissi is like the abominable snowman - vaguely glimpsed running in the opposite direction). Dr Gorgy has no idea what's wrong with me, doesn't claim to know what is wrong with me and doesn't pretend anything he's doing will actually work. That's not a problem - no one understands the immune system. He's made a couple of recommendations I've ignored and it's been fine so far, cross fingers (mostly to take steroids). Neither of us know anything with any certainty what my immune system is likely to do and that's cool with me.

In my view, his approach is light years better than either coming up with bulls**t explanations about embryo-eating killer cells (as some reproductive immunologists do) or claiming that my life-ruining immune condition is nothing to do with my fertility - despite me having no other known problems (again, as I've had happen).

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    Offline shootingstar777

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    Early Pregnancy Thread
    « Reply #891 on: 22/08/19, 21:01 »
    Hi everyone,

    mollymartha - Thank you for your words.  I'm putting it all out of my mind as much as possible.  I'm afraid I don't have much confidence in statistics because I have been the exception in the past.  They found a fast heartbeat on my first scan a couple of years ago which sadly ended in a MC.  I'm obviously happy about the growth on the second scan this time but two days is not enough to get a good idea, so I will just have to wait until my next scan on Wednesday.  But this all being said, the odds are quite seriously in your favour with everything you have said about your pregnancy and it doesn't sound like your doctors have any concerns at all with anything.  I don't know anything about papp-a and didn't even have that tested on my first pregnancy.  I imagine that there is not an awful lot of data out there to support what is truly a low level and what isn't as I reckon that most women don't have their papp-a levels tested!  My advice regarding trying to get some counselling still stands as your posts still sound extremely anxious.  I would strongly urge you to directly ask your midwife or doctor for support.

    Londonwriter - Thank you for your support.  Yes, I've stopped Googling (I think I read every story available anyway ;D).  I do feel a little better today though and have put an update below.  You are quite right that people only post with the bad stories.  For example, had I not had my MC or any experience of IVF, I would have skipped out of my scan on Tuesday, incredibly happy as the doctor and sonographer had no concerns at all.  I certainly wouldn't have then posted on a forum about the size discrepancy as it wouldn't have entered my head to.  So I wonder just how many others will have measured small and not even really questioned it.  So you're right about that.  I really hope you start to feel much better soon and glad this morning was a little better.  Not having any definitive answers and resolution must be difficult.  Fingers crossed this is down to a cold, I've had some really rotten colds so they can make you feel pretty awful especially when pregnant.

    WobblyTulip - How are you feeling today?  One step closer to your scan on Saturday.  Wishing you loads of luck and hoping you get some great news at your scan!

    I hope everyone else is doing OK?

    AFM - I'm feeling more positive today but remaining realistic.  I know this can still go either way as I'm still very early on in my pregnancy, so I am remembering this to keep me grounded.  However, since my cramping / pulling and stretching last night, I have had more of the same today.  I really think this is a sign of everything growing and I would not say this (touch wood) if I was not fairly sure.  I don't know if this can actually happen, but it feels like the embryo just stopped growing for a week then started again, which would actually fit with my measurements and dates!  Again, that sounds ridiculous, but it's just like it's happened.  Perhaps he or she had a little rest and then decided to keep growing.  Either way, it's feeling more positive today! xx

    Offline mollymartha

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    « Reply #892 on: 23/08/19, 00:33 »
    sorry for a quick reply will write more later but just to very quickly explain  the papp-a level is routinely tested with the nipt screening tests its apparently done as part of that when they do the nuchal scan they take your blood too and they test your free beta levels and papp-a a protein produced by the placenta apparently I knew nothing about this at all before have had to google it all for explanations lol so yes any woman who takes the  nipt screening  tests will get their papp-a level done in that will reply properly later x

    Offline shootingstar777

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    « Reply #893 on: 23/08/19, 05:29 »
    Hi mollymartha, yes I understood that the level is tested as part of the NIPT / Harmony blood test but the point I was making was that more women donít get to know their levels than do. These tests are comparatively new too so I doubt there would be decades of data covering a very large population of women on which to base what is normal, low etc. Itís also good to remember that whilst we may find information on the internet, there may be other reasons why doctors / others make the decisions they do. If you havenít actually been told there is a concern then try not to be concerned - I know itís hard. I panicked when I was measured small on my first scan and the sonographer told me not to worry even when I told her this was a FET so dates were sure. Iíve since found a study online which includes a huge population of women that finds that the early scans dated using the current model developed 30+ years ago are vastly underestimating gestational age by around 3-4 days. It could well be that the sonographer knew about this more recent study and may have been why she wasnít concerned! It doesnít even sound like the reason the scans are underestimating is due to mis-measurement either! There is just more information available now.

    Offline WobblyTulip

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    « Reply #894 on: 23/08/19, 06:55 »
    Hello!

    Shootingstar - sounds like thereís some growing going on in there if youíre getting some stretching. What an anxious wait you have until Weds - hope you can find ways to distract yourself and relax

    Mollymartha - have you been able to get some counselling support yet? Interestingly although the PAPP-A is measured as part of the nuchal translucency set of bloods, itís not reported separately to NHS patients so most never would know. My last pregnancy I just got a probability of downs, edwards and patau as a 1 in xxx ratio. So Iím curious to know how you found out your value. Did you pay separately for a Harmony test in addition and had it reported with that?

    Londonwriter- hope youíre feeling better soon.

    Omnom and Claudia and GED - how are you all doing?

    AFM one more day to go until our early scan. Havenít had too much time to worry about it as busy with work and toddlebot. Went out for an indian last night and felt quite nauseous at the end of the meal. I remember last pregnancy spicy food didnít agree with me - looks like my days of curry are again limited! Woke this morning feeling incredibly bloated with abdominal cramps and feeling nauseous. My digestion is all messed up! Today is my mummy/ daughter day so weíre going out to a nature park with friends for a picnic.


    Offline Londonwriter

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    « Reply #895 on: 23/08/19, 07:31 »
    Shooting - echoing WobblyTulip in saying stretching is a good sign. Wishing you all the best for Wednesday and a stress-free (or as much as possible) wait before then.

    WobblyTulip - good luck with your scan. With immunes treated and a PGS-normal embryo youíre in the strongest possible position for a good result :) Itís amusing that you have a Ďtoddlebotí. Iíve also had periods of having a Ďtoddlebotí, but he appears to have morphed into a Ďtoddlybopí now! :D

    MollyMartha - I tend to agree with Shooting on this. I had an enormous panic with DS around ultrasounds where the little guy seemed to have a tiny head compared to the rest of his body and I panicked he had microcephaly. My consultant wasnít worried, but did an extra scan to see if his head was growing proportionally, and it was. It turned out that it was an ultrasound artefact because he was head down for most of the pregnancy and his head had grown into a cone shape. He had a perfectly average-sized head. It was very easy for me to work myself into a panic reading stuff on the internet while my consultant had, obviously, seen a lot more foetal head measurements than me. I know it feels youíre not being listened to, but itís possible the sonographer and consultant saw that your placenta looked okay, foetus looked okay, and subsequently werenít too worried about the PAPP-A number. Remember, theyíve seen a lot more pregnancies than you. Iíve no experience of IUGR, but Iíve read a lot of threads on FF by ladies whoíve had IUGR and/or placental insufficiency with twins and, from what Iíve read, itís not something that appears in 72 hours. It goes on for weeks and is picked up by the normal range of scans. If youíre really concerned then it looks, from what your consultant said, that you should take baby aspirin as it probably wonít do any harm and might do some good. It might be worth, as I mentioned, speaking to someone about the appropriate dosage and whether it clashes with any other medication you might be taking. After that, you can buy it for a few pence at Boots.

    My immune micro-flare had cleared completely by yesterday lunchtime. Temperature had dropped back to baseline by this morning and I had more energy by yesterday afternoon that Iíve had since about week 8 of the pregnancy. I had the toddlybop for the day yesterday so took him to the playground around 2pm, which is normally the time Iíve been needing to sleep. I slept properly last night and woke up feeling refreshed. Not sure if it was an OTT immune response to a mild viral infection (Iím waking up with a bunged up nose) or my immune system having a last dysfunctional hurrah before responding to the IVIG. Grape seems to be unperturbed by the experience as I found his heartbeat again last night and felt him moving around near the heartbeat.

    Offline Angel_Delight

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    « Reply #896 on: 23/08/19, 09:28 »
    Hello all, may I join you? :)

    I've had my second beta and my numbers are going up nicely.  I have a viability scan in just over a week.  I have had a bit of sickness which has now gone, so hoping that that's not a bad sign.  I hate the waiting game!

    Sorry for no personals, I need to read back at your stories.



    Offline mollymartha

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    « Reply #897 on: 23/08/19, 11:29 »
    wobblytulip to answer your question yes my nhs trust does give you the exact figures of free beta and papp-a they send you the nipt results letter with the background risk and adjusted risk for Edwards and pataus and downs, then it gives you the mom reading in units of the free beta and papp-a so I knew my exact levels from that no I didnt take any harmony test or any of the private ones my nhs trust give you the levels in that letter no not going to get any counselling im really not one for it tbh ive had a few sessions at the clinic and they were kind helpful and easy to talk to but ive tried all the breathing techniques, mediation on youtube visualisation etc doesn't help me at all im afraid and I just need clear correct medical info on this tbh only a scan/tests can tell me for sure whats going on and if its a mmc etc and go from there I guess
     I hope your tummy has settled down now and you are feeling better how exciting your first scan ! hope all goes really well how far are you now enjoy your day with you daughter meant to be nice weather but hot so hope you take it easy

    yes shooting ive heard the papp-a is quite a new test yes I totally see your point thank you and appreciate its a new test my main worry is the stillbirth risk and late miscarriage risks ive read mainly good outcomes with iugr even if they are very tiny and in nicu a while its generally happy endings same with the per eclampsia if caught early a few of my friends have had that with good outcomes one friends midwife missed it its only her friend mentioned she was swelling up to get to hospital! luckily her and baby were ok he was a month early and small but ok I know any pregnant lady even younger ones conceiving naturally can have any number of issues complications and bad outcomes sometimes I know they never even know why this whole journey is just so so tough emotionally you have a god d ay then 10 bad ones it seems you try to calm down then theres a new worry guess its the same with a child though too the worry never stops! I hope you are able to keep busy/distracted until your next scan, when is it again sorry? I hope it comes around quick for you an the waiting doesn't seem too long, I truly hope all is ok and little one I still growing I hope you can focus on those new studies in your head and remain hopeful and trust the sonographer that it is all ok and just a little smaller but all ok, that's all we hope for just let little one be ok, have you go to go back to your clinic for the next scan, hope you can try to relax and have a calm peaceful weekend atleast

    londonwriter how are you feeling today, glad you felt much better by yesterday hope the temperature stays down and you continue to have more energy and oomph must be such a huge relief to finally feel better after feeling so awful and dreadful, sounds like you had a much better day more energy and zest maybe as you are progressing the hormones are settling too and you are going to have hat 2nd trimester energy boost maybe it was a combination of the cold virus and the ivig that overloaded our system and you felt so ill? that's amazing you can feel grape moving already!! how far are you now , it must be so so special ad reassuring to feel him move and hear his heartbeat! how wonderful! whens your next scan? enjoy these special early days! im sure it will all fly by the next 6 months or so . sorry to hear how you had so much anxiety over your sons head sized theres always something to worry about isn't there atleast you got answers as to why and they listened to you and did extra checks to find out why yes of course I know they are the experts try to trust them but after that nhs scan it wasn't even very clear and theres no way the nhs consultant has checked the scan she didn't even know why I was seeing her hadn't read the notes and had to google papp-a levels in front of me so I doubt she had even seen any scans or checked the placenta lol I know the private scans you get what you pay for but I trust them a lot more yes I have had to research iugr and it seems it really kicks in after 20 weeks, or more once the baby has growth spurts the dr said they only offer extra growth scans after 28 weeks here which they do for ivf ladies anyway at 28 so I guess all you could do is extra private scans my friend had a small baby they sent her for fortnightly scans but she had already had 4 kids by then they weer al naturally small so she wasn't too worried she is only tiny herself and all her babies were tiny too but they sent her fortnightly atleast she had that reassurance its more the 5 times higher risk of stillbirth and miscarriage that terrifies me I know most iugr if caught early have god outcomes but I made the mistake of seein a tv show the other day with a iny tiny baby with iugr and bless him he didn't make it it was the 4th loss that poor mum had suffered in that way so that was awful to see and very upsetting so that is a reality of it too just awful to even imagine I definitely wouldnt just start on any aspirin without them prescribing it first to scared too lol im meant to see the midwife next week so if if if  I get that far can ask her then , im not thinking that far ahead though  I had really just hoped to make it to the gender scan be excited about that atleast and that be a turning point to start to calm down but now the whole low papp-a has dominated and overshadowed that I really wanted to drop in to my clinic take them their cakes and share the gender news but cant do that now im just honestly fearing the very worst now and its already too late for little one just got such  bad feeling tbh all any of us can do is take it a day at a time I guess

    welcome along angel delight huge congratulations great news on the betas and hope your scan comes around very quick! x

    Offline firefly37

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    « Reply #898 on: 23/08/19, 17:16 »
    Hi Ladies,

    Hope you are all doing well ... I'm popping off from this post ... I only came on to respond to mollymartha as I saw so much of myself in her which subsequently caused me to get ill --- I wanted to help but I don't think anything I have written has even been read let alone acknowledged and this makes me sad mollymartha and I genuinely genuinely hope that you don't end up as ill as I was ...  ^hugme^

    You say counselling etc is not for you, meditation etc ... seriously?! How long have you practiced? Mediatation takes 8 weeks to start to make changes to the brain.  Its not a "try it once" and then bin it off ... I had no choice but to persist with meditation as it is the only treatment for Tinnitus which I had caused by severe post natal illness ... guess what? IT WORKED.

    re this constant writing about PAPP A ... did you see the post I put on with information from the NHS not "mumsnet" or similar ... FROM THE NHS? I have never even looked at my PAPP A results ... no medical professionals have told me its a problem so why would I make it one?!  If you have not been told by a medical professional that there is an issue ... then I cannot for the life of me understand why you are making it one.  But as one writer put, sadly I think after you get over one thing, you will then fret about something else ... so I will not be writing anymore ... I just hope that something clicks inside you and you start to relax, I really do.  Lastly, I know that you come on for support and advice ... however I am worried that your very OTT anxiety will start to affect other ladies and encourage them to start researching issues that they don't need to ... so maybe be mindful of this.

    GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE OTHER SOON TO BE MUMMAS!!!  7 AND A HALF WEEKS TO GO FOR ME ... !!!  ;D

    Firefly OUT  ;D xxxx

    Offline shootingstar777

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    « Reply #899 on: 23/08/19, 20:08 »
    Hi everyone,

    mollymartha - I read your comment about not being one for counselling.  But that is the only thing that us ladies can suggest for you to find a way out of this anxiety.  I understand about wanting to know as much as possible about the medical information but if it only makes you more worried then this isn't helpful to you.  You won't be able to get medical information from this thread, only the experience of others with their own treatment.  So the only advice we can give is to speak to the doctor.  firefly37 has made a good point about making others worried and I have also wondered about this with the amount of talk about MC, stillbirth and many other negative outcomes.  Perhaps an idea to be mindful of this when posting as firefly37 says.  Of course we understand your anxiety, and we all want you to enjoy your pregnancy which is why we are worried about you.  Thank you for your kind words about my upcoming scan.  I have to say, I'm up and down about this constantly and will just have to wait until Wednesday.  It feels like a long way away.

    Angel_Delight - Welcome to the thread and congratulations on your BFP!  Great news that your beta numbers are going up well.  Wishing you luck as you wait for your scan.  Symptoms come and go, and my doctor told me earlier this week that extra progesterone can cause a bit of nausea.

    Londonwriter - Thank you for the reassurance.  Trying to keep busy over the coming days while I wait for the next scan.  Really glad to hear you are feeling better!

    WobblyTulip - Thank you, I hope so!  Wishing you lots of luck for tomorrow and hoping you get good news at your scan.  I will be keeping an eye open for your update.

    I hope everyone else is doing OK?

    AFM - I have had a bit more cramping this evening.  Nothing all day though.  But the cramps this evening feel more sinister than just pulling and stretching.  I can't really explain it.  Boobs are still sore so that's a good sign.  Five more days until the next scan.  I have tried to detect the heartbeat with my doppler but no luck as yet.  It's likely way too early because I got the HB when I was 8+5 on my first pregnancy and I'm only 7+5 today, plus measuring a week behind! xx