* Author Topic: Low AMH/High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 7  (Read 29581 times)

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Offline Babyhopeful

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Low AMH/High FSH Cycle Buddies - Part 7
« Reply #40 on: 25/03/19, 19:15 »
Katkat - Thank you!

Shadywheat- What fantastic news! Iím super pleased for you. As klik has said I really hope this is third time lucky! xx

Afm - We went for a day 3 transfer of the two embryos after much deliberation, right up to the transfer! DH and I were hopeless, we really didnít know what to do and were tying ourselves up in knots weighing up all the pros and cons. As of this morning I had 1x 8 cell and 1x 6 cell. By the the time of transfer I had 1x 7 cell and 1x 10 cell. Iím slightly worried that one is growing too slow and the other is growing too fast. Both are top quality though and the embryologist seemed happy with them. Interestingly, she said that sometimes day 3 transfers work better for some women than day 5s. Lets hope I fall into that category!

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    Offline klik

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    « Reply #41 on: 26/03/19, 04:40 »
    can't sleep so hi, ladies!

    Babyhopeful: congratulations on having two embryos on board! I'm pretty sure I'd have made the same decision as you. Wow, what a rollercoaster cycle indeed! This process is immensely demanding on our emotions--I think we all deserve a medal just for staying sane all this time... My fingers are super-crossed for at least one of those to stick, and to stay stuck this time. Good luck!!!

    katkat: I can't add much to the tamoxifen insights other than what's already been said... I think some women do get a sort of re-sensitisation of the uterus to oestrogen after having had the oestrogen suppressed, but it's hard to know if you'll be one of them. How thick was your lining when you got implantation?? I was always one for trying to repeat exactly what I'd done when I got implantation, but that's almost more superstition than it is anything else, as one data point is not enough to extrapolate from... Hopefully decapeptyl hasn't suppressed you for too long--when is AF due? Also, re. EU prescriptions, hopefully you have at least two more weeks to go, plus the government is finally starting to make noises that as Parliament has rejected a no-deal Brexit, the government will not allow it (though who knows?) Anyway, I remember on the Serum website there's a page for women who commute from abroad, and there's a doctor listed there who will write a UK prescription based on a foreign prescription, but... it's expensive... So hopefully that won't be necessary... Oh, re. Crinone and Cyclogest, I think for me they were practically interchangeable when it came to the impact they made on my serum progesterone levels, despite the dosage mentioned on the packet...

    Briss: unbelievable how crummy you've had it lately... I hope it turns out somehow all for the best, like there's a fresh start ahead of you, but in the meantime, how much stress can one person handle? It's so messed up--I'm sorry...

    queenie: Re. your question as to what happened differently this time for me, I do think a lot of it is blind luck. Especially at my age--even in the general population, not many 44-year-old women get pregnant naturally, much less with an apparently normal (it seems, so far) embryo. I think this is one of the enormous frustrations of IVF, especially for us DOR women who can only produce very few embryos at a time--it takes us many more cycles, on average, to find that lucky embryo... All that said, there are some things that come to mind... first, before this pregnancy, I'd been pregnant three times (one chemical, one blighted ovum, one post-heartbeat m/c)--two of those times were natural pregnancies, so perhaps that's my body telling me it prefers less intervention, rather than more. Second, I learned enough to ignore CRGH's prohibition against unprotected sex while on norethisterone (I thank Shady for that, as she did say Lister doesn't proscribe BDing on norethisterone). I also learned enough to start the norethisterone after I knew I'd ovulated (I was taking my basal body temperature every morning), rather than on day 14, which is what CRGH recommends. I also knew when to test so that an FRER would catch even a late implantation (14DPO, in my case), then I tested for beta, progesterone, and oestrogen that same day and progesterone was ridiculously low (2nmol), and then I was lucky enough that Dr Ozturk was available that day to help me change over to a better type of progesterone from norethisterone. Oestrogen was undetectable, so I ended up supplementing that too, even though CRGH doesn't normally do that for natural cycles. Finally, I think I was psychologically in a freer place, where there was literally more space in my mind for a baby. I'd been hoping to train as a psychoanalyst, and November 1st last year was the application deadline if I wanted to train under my current analyst, but I ended up deciding not to apply, which removed a pressure that didn't feel right at the time. The pregnancy happened right after that decision, and it's possible this is not coincidental, though it's hard to know. Also on the psychological front, because I thought there was practically no chance of a natural pregnancy, I was living a normal life in the 2ww--drinking, flying, carrying heavy stuff, BDing--I wouldn't be the first woman to have a pregnancy sneak in when I'm least expecting it. Sorry, that was a novel... I really hope your embryo turns out to be strong and that you get another good blast from it... I'm terribly sorry your DH has been made redundant... These are really rough times for way too many people, unfortunately... I really hope he finds something very soon--is that likely? I hope so... Good luck...

    Shady: from memory, it occurs to me that your implantation was not too far from when you were running your half-marathon--so much for putting one's feet up in the 2ww!

    Offline queenie123

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    « Reply #42 on: 26/03/19, 15:06 »
    Hi Guys,
    Our embryo arrested on day 2 - currently devastated and unsure how to proceed next.

    So I am calling on the hive-mind to figure out what to do next.   My last 4 cycles have been a bust and I wanted some input on when to cycle next.   Below is a list of all my cycles, dates, lifestyle factors, meds and results.

    I have just had the implantation cuts so I don't want to leave it too long, I think the plan would be for a fresh transfer on a natural cycle???  Thoughts?


    IVF attempt no.ClinicDateLifestyleExerciseDietSupplimentsDownregStimEC results L OvaryEC resutls R OvaryFertilisation resultsD3 resultsBlast?Transfer?Meds for transfer?Results?
    1SerumSep-16Moderate StressGentleNormalLimitedLuteal phase BCP, stopped day 1.Clomid only, A little bit of Meopur at the end.111Gd A 8 cellFailed to expand, gd C.N/a--
    2SerumJul-17Low stressModerateV. HealthyLots (fertilix, ubiquinol, B12, Fish oil, folic acid, Melatonin).NoneNone (Exp Menopur last 2/3 days).11Gd A 8 cellTop quality Blast.N/a--
    3CreateOct-17Moderate StressModerateModerately healthyLots (fertilix, ubiquinol, B12, Fish oil, folic acid, Melatonin).Priming (patches), stopped day1.Bemfold 187.5iu d 5 - trigger414Gd A 8 cell, 2 x 7 cell, 1 x 6 cell.Best one frozen d3, the rest failed to make it to Blast.N/a--
    4CreateDec-17Moderate StressSedentaryModerately healthyLots (fertilix, ubiquinol, B12, Fish oil, folic acid, Melatonin).Priming (patches), stopped day3.Letrazole + Bemfold 187.5iu d 5 - triggerLost the dominant Lead. 3 others1Poor quality - none good enough to freeze.None made it.N/a--
    5CreateMar-18Moderate StressGentleModerately healthyLots (fertilix, ubiquinol, B12, Fish oil, folic acid, Melatonin).Luteal phase BCP - stopped day 1.Bemfold 187.5iu d 5 - trigger3131 x gd A 8 cell, 1 x 7 cell, 1 x 6 cell.Best one frozen d3, the rest failed to make it to Blast.FET - Following cycle - medicated.Chemical.
    6SerumJul-18Moderate StressGentleModerately healthyNoneBCP - stopped day 1.Clomid only, A little bit of Meopur at the end.111Poor quality 6 cell0N/a--
    7ReprofitDec-18High StressSedentaryUnhealthy / NormalStarted DHEA for a few weeks and re-startedd suppliments as before.BCP - stopped day 1.Letrazole and 300 Menopur.112gd A, 10 cell bothArrested d3.N/a--
    8SerumJan-19High StressSedentaryModerately healthyAs above plus - DHEAE2 tabletsLetrazole and d 3-8 300Gonal F then 300Menopur.1117 cell gd A-.N/AFresh ETNatural Cycle - V good lining.Negative
    9ReprofitFeb-19High StressSedentaryModerately healthyAs above plus - DHEAPriming (patches)Letrazole and 150 iu Menopur.2Lost the dominant Lead.1Arrested d2.0N/a--
    10SerumMar-19High StressSedentaryModerately healthyAs above plus - DHEAPriming - continued 2 weeks.Letrazole only then added in 125iu Menopur when started Cetrotide031Arrested d2.0N/a--

    Offline ShadyWheat

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    « Reply #43 on: 26/03/19, 15:26 »
    Oh Queenie, I'm so really really sorry to hear this. Sending you lots of love. It's devastating to have another round like this when you have been trying to bank for so long and have no idea why the embryos are arresting early. Did Penny have any suggestions? Did you ever see Dr Ramsay?

    KatKat, Klik and Babyhopeful, thank you so much for your good wishes and support my lovelies. Klik, it's funny what you were saying about trying to analyse how you finally got pregnant naturally. I've been doing the same, we tried for 4 years and zilch, and now I've had 2 natural pregnancies in a year at a rather advanced age. I absolutely hate people who say 'just stop being stressed' as it's far more complex than that, but in our case there has definitely been a correlation with mine and DH's work situations and stress levels. I also think that for me getting my Crohn's into remission has been hugely beneficial on my body and health too, I'm not perpetually tired from being constantly immunosuppressed. Plus I got my AMH results back last week from the Lister and they've gone up to 4.89! this is significantly better than 3 years ago, although obviously still very low so nothing to get that excited about. Klik, yes, it's very likely I conceived around half marathon weekend.... perhaps it was all the positive endorphins! I asked Lister about prescribing me some extra medication but they are blase as usual and refused. However, I have some leftover prednisolone so have been taking 25mg a day since I found out. Probably have enough to carry me through for another month which fingers crossed would be the major danger zone. I did wonder about going to see Dr G but I think that's just a knee jerk response to do anything I can to hold on to this pregnancy, I don't genuinely believe he can help me and DH isn't keen on the idea. I decided not to bother with a repeat beta as it won't reassure me, and it's not that long now to wait for a 7wk scan (which I will do at the local EPU as it makes it easier to co-ordinate if something is wrong) and I may as well save myself the money and buy a nice treat instead (like some new running shoes!). I'm just trying to carry on life as normally as I can as I know unfortunately there is no control I have over this process at all.

    Babyhopeful, congrats on having both embryos on board. It sounds really positive that they're both top quality. I'm wishing you a relaxing and healthy 2WW, are you having some time off?

    Offline katkat2014

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    « Reply #44 on: 27/03/19, 12:01 »
    Queenie, do you happen to have high LH at the start of the cycle? Do you have low testosterone? Does your follicle grow on its own or do you really need chlomid/letrozole? With a quick glimpse over your results, then I'd say the low dose Bemfola on its own and with no dhea works the best for you in terms of numbers of follicles/eggs and/or I'd suggest to try a fully natural cycle as well (maybe menopur for 1 day at the end) to get the best egg possible. Also as you seem to have an issue with getting embryos from Day 3 to Day 5, perhaps focus on fresh Day 3 transfers from now if possible. I cannot work out how many you have frozen, but I think there are 2 x Day 3 frozen with Create and 1 blast with Serum, correct?  Can you do a fully natural cycle with Create, if you have an embryo then transfer it day 3 and if not and lining is good, then transfer one of the frozen ones?
    By the way, I have had periods of going out drinking a lot and other times living like a nun and it hasn't made any difference whatsoever to my eggs, and neither has it to the sperm (and we have consistently 100% abnormal sperm). So I wouldn't give too much on the lifestyle/health/supplements etc. as I think most of this is in our heads... and look at Shady running the marathon and klik moving around a lot in the 2ww as they didn't even know they were in the 2ww...

    Klik, my lining on my only implantation cycle was just 6.9mm, it had shrunk from just over 7 and then stuck around at 6.8/8mm for a couple of days before trigger and progesterone. The thing is that I always thought my embryos didn;t stick around because of poor lining! But on other fully medicated cycles with no implantation my lining was around 8mm.

    Babyhopeful, great news on your transfer!

    AFM, af arrived on time (early) even with decapeptyl and have started the tamoxifen. I have to remember not to get shocked when my lining is non existent on the first scan, as am suppressing the estrogen at the moment.  I am in the same boat as Queenie with my scratch. It's now the third month after I had the scratch. is there still any benefit from it at all?

    Offline LXP

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    « Reply #45 on: 27/03/19, 13:53 »
    Afternoon Ladies

    I hope you are all well? I have been lurking and just wanted to say an optimistic congratulations to ShandyWheat! xXx

    Offline Babyhopeful

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    « Reply #46 on: 27/03/19, 19:38 »
    Queenie123 - I just want to say how sorry I am to hear your news. Looking at your history it seems like the round using Bemfola worked well. Personally Iím a big fan of Bemfola, but it doesnít work for everyone. With regards to exercise and diet, I think the right combination of vitamins are important and seem to have made a slight difference for me, but drinking or not drinking has had little effect either way. I think moderate exercise helps lower stress and anxiety, but heavy exercise for me has reduced my afc in the past. Again, this is not true for everyone and plenty of ladies get their BFPs during periods of intense exercise. I think you just have to find a balance thatís right for you and helps you live a normal life between treatment cycles. Have you had any advice from the embryologists about why your embryos could be arresting early? Do they think itís an egg or a sperm problem? Sometimes I think itís easier to blame the egg, but I donít always think this is the case.

    Afm - Iím worried things are not going to plan already! I still seem to have slightly discoloured discharge after ET, which I was hoping would have cleared up by now. Iím pretty sure my progesterone levels are okay as Iím using lubion x1 and cyclogest x 2 daily and Iím not using the cyclogest vaginally. I also feel a bit crampy, but Iím not sure if this is from sitting awkwardly during home working. Iím trying my best not to over analyse everything, but Iím not having much success at the moment!

    Offline klik

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    « Reply #47 on: 28/03/19, 22:47 »
    queenie, that is so disappointing! I was really hopeful for this embryo--I'm so, so sorry... Looking at your chart, I think in your place I'd never want to see letrozole again... I mean, I guess you got a 7-cell from one letrozole cycle, but lately it hasn't been doing anything for you, and you used to get 8-cells before anyway. A natural cycle transfer sounds good to me, as your lining was good in a natural cycle before... And personally I guess for any potential future collections (hopefully unnecessary!) I'd just try to be emulating that occasion when you got that beautiful blast--a natural cycle except for that little boost at the end. I mean, it would make sense to me if you went for a mostly-natural cycle, with a bit of menopur at the end, then collected any eggs and transferred that same cycle... it's sort of economical with time and money... but some people believe that the trigger messes with receptivity, and if you believe that, then perhaps a fully natural-cycle transfer would be in order... Best of luck... I'm so sorry--it's an enormous disappointment...

    Shady: all your decisions make sense to me--whatever will be will be. We control so little of this process... I'm annoyed at Lister for not giving you more support. You've certainly spent enough money with them--the least they could do is carefully consider how to help you hold onto this pregnancy... Still, hopefully you don't need them--I'm glad you've got some prednisolone left. Also, my impression is that you rather dislike Dr G, and I suppose I'd be conflicted in such a situation, but on the whole it makes sense to avoid the bad vibes (though maybe I'm wrong and it's someone else who dislikes him). I'm so glad you changed jobs--I think it's done you a world of good... perhaps it's helped settle down the Crohn's and just kicked off a whole happier, healthier phase of your life... I really hope this is the one for you!

    katkat: I think I'd interpret your chemical as meaning that 7 is plenty for you... Either way, really hoping tamoxifen does the trick for you! When is the first "thin lining" scan??

    LXP: hugs...

    Babyhopeful: it's the curse of the 2ww--we all resolve not to symptom-spot and we all fail miserably... By now, though, I'm pretty sure I've seen women have every single symptom both before a BFP and before a BFN, discharge and cramps very much included! What I'm trying to say is, you're definitely not out of the running--keeping my fingers crossed for you... When do you test?! Good luck!!

    Offline Briss

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    « Reply #48 on: 29/03/19, 08:51 »
    Just a quick one

    Shadywheat, omg what fantastic news! Iím so pleased for you. Take it one little step at a time.

    Babyhopeful, best of luck!! Hoping for implantation and strong bfp. I'm with Klik in terms of symptom spotting. I was sure cramping from right after ET wasn't a good sign but it was a bfp so who knows. The discharge is worrying but most likely totally unrelated to what's going on inside uterus. I know its impossible not to analyse your symptoms. Keep strong and positive.

    Queenie, I'm so gutted for you!! I might be mistaken but I think I read somewhere that the first 3 days arrest is more likely to do with egg than sperm but ultimately its all speculation and no way to be sure. fresh transfer on a natural cycle sound like a good plan.

    Kat, I hope tomaxophen does its job. I have no experience of it except that dh had to take it as dr Ramsay thought this could increase his testosterone levels and sperm count as a result. While his hormones did increase it had no effect on count or quality.

    Afm, am in brno facing another disappointment.  I'm so exhausted from trying to find a job and a place to live and still try and catch that egg. I had really promising estrogen levels on day 10 over 2000 (higher than usual for me) and LH went up to 27, my opk was positive around midday but monitor was still on high so I triggered that day but by 8 am on day 12 the egg has gone. It has become so difficult catching the eggs on natural cycles, I miss more often that catch these days. Got a donor egg speech at retrofit, disappointing. I don't have much sperm left in Munich so have to come to brno now until dh manages 3 months with no beer to prepare then batch. He managed one but then we went to Portugal and that was it.

    On property side, turns out our landlady passed away and her children can't effort to keep the flat. We considered buying it but it has a very short leasehold remaining so we can't get a mortgage.  They want us out asap so they could do the place up and sell it. The current plan is try to buy a place outside London which is a huge undertaking. Basically we are looking at a large mortgage which we can barely afford plus commute. Trying to work out the right schools catchment areas to make sure we don't miss out on a good state school in case we can no longer afford a private school for dd. I'm scared of mortgage but there is no other way for us to get a house. Tired of renting the stress of having to uproot your whole life on short notice is just too much. Very crossed at dh that he hasn't been saving more but how could he with our constants ivf expenses...

    I'm tempted to try estrogen priming with elonva again but it does not solve the issue of early ovulation. Still it is so far the only protocol that delived 3 embryos and 100% fertilisation rate. Long protocol is also an option but I struggle with inadequate hormonal levels after implantation

    Offline Helenbeau

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    « Reply #49 on: 29/03/19, 20:03 »
    Oh my god...I just wrote a long one to everybody on my phone but somehow it didn't send and i lost it! So annoyimg. I'll try again but might be a bit more brief. sorry.

    Babyhopeful, no need to give up. Any symptom could mean anything! One way of knowing is pulse readings...but don't go down that hole as it will defo drive you mad. Good luck sweetie.

    Briss, sorry about another wasted trip to Brno. I belive that I ovulate very fast after LH surge. It's definitley 24 hours later or less and no way 36 hours. I kind know this from when I start my period. Maybe now you do the same? As for houses, I'm trying to buy one, out of London as it's all i can afford but I think my deposit money will be going on more treatment. Sucks.

    Klik, hope you're doing well.

    Kat hope you get better results

    Queenie, we were in Serum on same day I think. How do you find them? Will you go back to them next time?

    Shady, wow, big congrats. Of course you're pregnant! Didn't the same happen last time after a failed cycle? Wonder why that is? Thought you pregnancy new would be a good omen for me as we tend to get pregnant together, but not this time unfortunately. Hope this is the one for you!

    Hi to anyone I've missed. Sorry for spelling. I'm typing quickly after my first failed attempt.

    AFM...I transferred 2 AA hatching blasts last week. For anyone who's interested the whole DE thing made absolutely no difference. The minute they went in they were mine and felt exactly the same as my own.
    I tested today, early I know but its a bfn and I know that's it for me. We always try to analyse why and of course I have my theories. Firstly on day 9, Friday, my lining was 8.9mm and Penny said to start progesterone on Saturday night, day 10. I thought it was a bit early and I could have gone on a bit longer to get a bit thicker lining (my lining had never been this thick before at day 9 so it seemed a bit suspicious anyway). I had a 14mm dominant follicle and I'm sure she didn't want me to ovulate before I started progesterone but still seemed a bit early. Anyway I was to have a transfer day 16 or 17 depending on my progesterone level. On day 16 my level was 46ng so I thought we'd be doing transfer that day but then she said the reason it was day 16 or 17 was because she potentially had a fresh embryos but they wouldn't be ready until day 17 so I would transfer then as she thought the fresh would be better. So I actually transferred 2 5 day hatching embryos on day 6. I can't help but think day 6 was too late and maybe I missed this all elusive window! I know I shouldn't be cynical but I can't help it and I wonder if she genuinely thought these fresh embryos were better than frozen ones on day 5. did she even have any on day 5? I'll never know, but I do feel gutted that 2 top quality blasts haven't stuck and I'll have to go through the whole thing AGAIN....I've never got a possitive test from a FET...I know this wasn't technically frozen but I mean when I haven't had EC and transferred on that same cycle. I'm worried what to try next. Should I go again straight away on my next period? Should I try OE alongside DE just so I get to go through the whole cycle? (as I typed that I did remember how much less stress there is when you don't collect eggs!) Do you think the timing was off or would it not matter too much and it's just one of those things, it's just not worked. There was always the worry of starting with donor and it not working...I knew it might take time even with donor eggs. I will try again, just not sure best way forward. xxx