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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi

I've just heard about a new treatment called IMSI that is supposed to be more effective in choosing the right sperm for injection. Anyone know where in the UK you can do it? I heard that Care Manchester is one but there's supposedly another clinic trialling a machine and I wondered where it was.

Thanks in advance

V xxx
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi again Karenanna

It definitely is licensed here now. I've found at least two clinics that do it, Care Manchester, and this clinic http://www.ivfcliniclondon.com . They also do it at a clinic in Murcia, in the south of Spain, and it's significantly cheaper there than the London clinic or Care. Flights and accommodation probably take the cost up to comparable, although you can get some cheap packages to that part of Spain and IVF and a built in holiday for the same price has an appeal. In fact, I'd be tempted to stay there for the 2ww lol. http://www.imfer.com/eng/index.htm

This doesn't get DH out of giving up smoking but does sound like a really good option for us. Couples in the same position as we are (woman no obvious problems but MF, more than two IVF failures) have had their success rates increased from around 13% up to 39% per cycle. That's a huge difference.

V xxx

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Hi Valentina

Did you mention the not smoking to him? Hope you manage to find out where the other clinic is - you could post on the male factors board and see if anyone knows there?

Karenanna xxx
 

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Hi there....we're having ICSI with IMSI at Care in Manchester for this cycle. I'm in the process of DR at the moment.  We are using frozen sperm from my DP's Open TESE. We managed to achieve a pregnancy using donor eggs last year but had problems with fertilisation (even though my eggs have had 100% fert rates but no BFP's from them) and I then went on to suffer a MMC xx
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Karenanna! Yes, we have talked about it and he's agreed he'll give up for three months and have more sperm taken provided the doc at our consultation agrees that's worth doing, which I can't imagine for a moment he won't. I'm very happy. He even ate a banana today :D I've probably painted a bad picture of him because he's a very loving and supportive man in general, and does care about this working out. He just had to be convinced about it being important and it doesn't help that he has four kids already that apparently prove smoking doesn't matter! Lol. The study I found that so precisely described what we'd been through more or less convinced him, though.

nvb it sounds like we've been through much the same thing. It can look like failing eggs but that doesn't mean it is. I really think the sperm is likely to blame for both of us and that IMSI could be a great treatment for us. How much does IVF with IMSI cost at Care Manchester? Do they do immune testing/treatment there too? It's something I was planning on investigating although I'm becoming more and more convinced our failures are more about sperm than anything else. Really good luck with your cycle. I'll be keeping everything crossed for you!

V xxx
 

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Hi Valentina....I too think that the sperm has a huge part to blame in the BFN's and MMC! I feel that because of my age, my eggs were written off really quickly. With our donor egg cycle we got a call to tell us we had 8 mature eggs so we were so excited. The next day I had a call to say that only 1 had fertilised!!!! I was gobsmacked and when we spoke to the Embryologist he said that he'd really struggled with the sperm and that our donor had had 'excellent' fertilisation rates from her share of the eggs. So....now we have received NHS funding and are having one last shot with my own eggs and IMSI. I don't know how much the IMSI costs as for us, it's included in the ICSI price and paid for by the NHS. You could contact Care and ask them though. They also do immune testing and treatment. We are hoping to have Array CGH as well if we get enough embyos and if it shows up that the sperm is the problem I will be glad to finally have a reason but sad that it's taken 3 years and cost us £20k to discover this!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I know exactly what you mean. I feel almost like I've had a sudden breakthrough about the sperm and am gutted that this hasn't been questioned by our doctors earlier. Actually, to be fair, George Ndukwe did mention that he felt this was our problem but because it was over the phone and we couldn't get a review in person, and because we had some other issues with Care Nottingham, it went a bit over our heads. I could kick myself for not listening! All this heartbreak and cost along the way. I think we're closer to 25 if not 30k down, which is frightening. Still, it will be worth it in the end if we have a baby - I just won't care about any of the money it's cost us then. I've always checked out really well in hormone tests, scans etc and it's always been declared a mystery by our doctors as to why our treatment has been failing. I started when I was 36 and my egg reserve was excellent for my age. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they started talking donor eggs at my review appointment just because I'm turning 40 but I'm not ready for that and my response to treatment has actually been getting better over the years so why I should I give up on my own eggs?

I will give Care a call when they reopen. Thanks for the info. xxx
 

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Care will be open again tomorrow so try then.
I really wish there was more known about male infertility. Has your partner had SSR as well and are you using frozen sperm? We were advised 3 years ago to try donor sperm but my DP really wanted a bio baby. At least if all this fails and we end up using DS, we know we have tried everything possible.
Yes, don't be fobbed off with donor eggs just yet if you have good AMH/FSH. Have you been offered any immune testing? I've been given clexane for this cycle.
Our consultant told us that IMSI has been proven to reduce MC rates so I'm trying to stay positive that we get answers at last xxx 
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'll call them thanks nvb. Yes, exactly re the donor eggs. My AMH and FSH levels are good, my antral follicle count is right at the top end of normal, and I respond well to a low dose of stims so there's no reason to suspect I'm running out of eggs yet, although I accept there will be less good ones than there were a few years ago. Still, this age thing isn't an absolute and totally varies from woman to woman; some ladies are at the end of their fertility in their mid thirties. It happened to a good friend of mine. I read some research that said it's related slightly to the age you are when you start your period and I was 16, so that's probably part of the reason why my egg reserve still looks good.

Yes I read that about IMSI. It doesn't change fertilisation rates although, like you, I've not had much of a problem with that, and it improves implantation, clinical pregnancy and live birth rates significantly, the bit I haven't managed to crack yet! It is very promising. And, yes, like you we have frozen, surgically retrieved (pese in our case) sperm.

I've had the level one tests but nothing came up on them so I've been looking into the level two ones. I'm in two minds,at least partly because of what the HFEA and some doctors say about these tests. Still, in a way I think that I should check out everything given how much time and energy we've invested in this, and because of my age. I've had clexane and aspirin for the last two cycles, and aspirin with coenzyme Q10 the cycle before, and it hasn't made the vital difference yet but these don't work for all immune ladies so it might be worth further investigation.

I'll let you know how I get on talking to Care tomorrow xxx

 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hey nvb and Karenanna

Just goes to show sometimes your gut instincts and the research you do about these things are better than your consultants and that you can't rely on the doctors to know what's best. I got in direct touch with embryology at my clinic today and asked some specific questions and now I've finally got some answers. It turns out my lovely DH's sperm are abnormal. He could give up smoking and it might help, but the embryologist thinks it's doubtful and that we should look into donor sperm while I still have viable eggs. She thinks that the most likely thing is that anti sperm antibodies have built up in him since his vasectomy and that these are what are causing the main damage, not the smoking.

DH is being amazing about this and doesn't seem fazed at all by the idea of a donor. I guess it helps that he already has genetic children so doesn't have that drive or attachment to having his genes passed on that I still feel. If anything, I've been more upset than him, by the idea that I won't be having his kids.

I guess at least we have answers now but I am a bit angry at how this has happened five cycles in. Review after review, we've been told it's a mystery when a simple conversation with an embryologist at any point would have got to the bottom of it. I'm seriously considering seeing a lawyer about this. I'm lucky to have some viable eggs left. Lots of other ladies at my age would have been looking at donor eggs as well.

V xxx
 

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Hi all!
Bit late to this thread as only just joined fertilityfriends!

I've been looking into IMSI myself and the first place I discovered it was here :

IMSI

(Apologies if this isn't how you guys put a link in on here, never used a forum before so just googled how to link!)

I've been looking into CRM since finding this so if anyone has any experiences, let me know!

Here's hoping FertilityFriends can maybe give me the answers I need :)
/links :)
 

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