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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I am due to have my 2nd FET this week, i have 12 embies in storage so when i spoke to the lab i asked if i could thaw 4 but they said no that i must thaw at least 6.  She said when they thawed a batch of 6 for my last FET they where all quite fragmented and there was only 2 suitable for transfer so they want to thaw 6 again this time to give them a good chance of getting 2 to transfer.

But no-one has ever mentioned this to me before so i am quite worried about what it means, can fragmented embies still result in a positive pregnancy?

Tracyxx
 

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Hi

Yes, fragmented embryos can still result in BFP. Assuming grade 1 as "top" (as some clinics use reverse grading where 4 is best)....a grade 2, 3, 4 all have some amount of fragmentation.....but all can result in a successful pregnancy.

Here's some info....

♥ Minxy ♥ said:
wanting baby said:
Can anyone tell me how they grade the eggs? i have heard people talking aout the quality and Grade 1's 2's an i am not sure what is good?
wanting baby said:
Sorry, yet another question. What is assisted hatching ? has any of you tried this ?
Hi Andrea

Your questions are frequently asked so if you use the search facility you'll find lots of threads discussing this.

I wouldn't get too hung up on embryo grading to be honest. It's basically what helps embryologists determine the quality of the dividing embryo but with regards to success of treatment, you shouldn't put too much weight on it.....we've always had top grade embryos and have had 4 x BFNs (fresh cycles) and 2 x chemical pregnancies (both FETs). 1st IVF: 2 x grade 1 x 4 cell embies (day 2), 2nd IVF: 2 x grade 1 x 7 cell embies (day 3), 3rd IVF: 1 x grade 1 x 6 cell & 1 x grade 2 x 8 cell both with assisted hatching (day 3), 4th IVF: 2 x day 5 blastocysts, grades 2AA and 2BB.........1st FET: 2 x grade 1, 4 & 5 cell, 2nd FET only 1 embie survived the thaw and was grade 1, 4 cell....all the 4 embies thawed for FET were day 2 from our first IVF.

.....but there are plenty of ladies who have lower grade embies and get BFPs so there are no guarantees with a grade 1 or 2 that it'll be successful, just as having grade 3 or 4 means it won't be.

However, for information (although day 2 embies can be anywhere between 2-4 cells and day 3 embies can be anywhere between 6-8 cells and be absolutely fine....different clinics do grade slightly different so the info I've quoted below from a previous reply of mine is slightly out).

♥ Minxy ♥ said:
Hi

I would try not to get too "hung up" about the embryo grading as not all clinics will let you know as it doesn't necessarily mean success or failure based on embryo grade...it's mainly for the clinic/embryologists information. Also, it's not the eggs that are graded but the embryo's.

If you use the search facility then you will find this is a fairly frequently asked question & I know I've replied to quite a few of this posts so for want of repeating myself, here's some info which may give you a rough idea...

"Day 1 Check eggs for fertilization (the presence of two pronuclei or PN's)
Day 2 Embryos at the 4-cell or more stage of development
Day 3 Embryos at the 8-cell or more stage of development
Day 4 Embryos at the compacted morula (16-32 cell) stage
Day 5 Embryos at the blastocyst stage of development

...Critical points in development are (1) fertilization, (2) 4 to 8 cell stage and (3) morula to blastocyst stage.

With regards to grading, some clinics use the reverse scale so that Grade 4 is best...you would need to check with your own clinic (ours uses Grade 1 as best) and some clinics don't grade at all...

Numeric grading systems for multicell embryos usually have 4 levels (this showing Grade 1 as best):

Grade 1: even cell division, no fragmentation
Grade 2: even cell division, small fragmentation
Grade 3: uneven cell division, moderate fragmentation
Grade 4: uneven cell division, excessive fragmentation

Blastocysts are graded differently with a number and two letters.

The number refers to the degree of expansion of the blastocyst (1 is the least expanded, 6 is the most expanded). The first letter (A,B, or C) refers to the quality of the inner cell mass (the part of the blastocyst that is going to be the baby) and the second letter (A, B, or C) refers to the quality of the trophectoderm (the part of the blastocyst that is going to be the placenta).

Sometimes the laboratory uses the reversed scale where a grade 4 embryo is equivalent to a grade 1 embryo on the above scale. Check with your lab

And here's some more info...

http://www.ivf-bath.co.uk/treatments/embryo_grading.htm

However, lower grades and less cells doesn't necessarily mean that won't implant, just as higher grades can't guarantee success...

This website shows pictures of the different embryos and uses the reverse grading where grade 4 is best...

http://www.advancedfertility.com/embryos.htm

Many clinics will also only freeze grade 1 embies so usually an embie with more than 2 cells. The problem is that embies are so fragile and with the thawing process they can sometimes lose cells...so if only 2 cell embie frozen then it may not survive the thaw...although some do so would also depend on whether there was any fragmentation...

As for what's a good number of eggs to be collected....again, I would honestly try not to worry...it is QUALITY OVER QUANTITY.

Some women may only get 3 or so eggs and some may have "lower" grade embryos but still go on to get that much wanted BFP......whilst others (like me :( ) may get lots of eggs and "high" grade embies and BFN...there really are no guarantees sadly which is why best not to dwell too much on it.

Lots of luck to you ^reiki^
Natasha

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Chelsfield have grade 1 as top.

Blastocysts are graded differently from day 2 and 3 embryos as they are 5 days old and a mass of cells. Chelsfield grade like this:

Grade 1 (early) - 4 (expanded) and then 2/3 are in between.....with our last IVF the 2 we had put back were graded 2 so early expanding.

They also grade A (best)-C for the outer layer (placenta) and inner mass (embryo/foetus). Ours were apparently 2AA and 2BB.

Assisted hatching is where they make a little hole in the shell to help the embryo break through and hatch.....they don't do assisted hatching on blastocysts.

We had AH on our 3rd IVF. It is thought to improve chances but sadly for us, it didn't. They consider AH if woman is older as shells can be a little tougher....and also for those who've had several failed cycles.

^hello^ to everyone else :) Afraid I'm still not totally up to logging on FF all the time but will be back to my normal self soon....I hope ! ;) :-*

Suzy....thinking of you ^reiki^ ^reiki^ ^reiki^

Good luck
Natasha xx
Good luck
Natasha
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Natasha,

I went for my 1st FET bloods today and spoke to the nurse, she said at my 1st FET they graded the 2 embies that where transfered as 7/10 which she said for our clinic is still quite good, and now after reading what you said about most embies having some degree of fragmentation it has settled my mind a little.

Thanks for all the information
Tracyxx
 
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