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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We have just completed an ICSI cycle Unfortunately we tested negative  :'(
I am trying to understand whether going to blastocyst is best ?
and hoping someone out there could please offer advice on clinics/traetments that specialise in male infertility

I would welcome any advice  :-[

ICSI cycle 1 = ...
EC = 9 eggs,
day3 = 3 grade2 and 4 grade1 embryo's,
day5 none at blastocyst
and day6 ET with early blastocyst?
none frozen

^idiot^  :( ^idiot^ :(
I am assuming if the best of 9 did not blastocyst - it was due to issues with our sperm motility and count ?

Has anyone experienced an ET day5 or day6 with no blastocyst?

Has anyone experienced an improvement and experienced blastocyst with 2nd 3rd...etc ICSI cycle's?
I am wondering if it is better to ET at day3 with whatever embryo's are at grade1 - instead of waiting for blastocyst?

Hope  ^pray^ that things are going well for whoever reads this message  ^pray^
Dev
xx







 

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Hi Dev, sorry to hear that lovey.

Yours is a question I often ask myself and its hard to know what to do for the best. I switch between thinking go to blasto, that way you can see which ones embies are the strongest and use those ... between thinking gettem back in there! Being in a lab for too long can't be doing them any good!

By the sounds of it you couldn't have changed the outcome of this one whatever you had done lovey, if you had any of them put back in you've seen yourself that they didn;t have it in them to develop to blastos. Sorry to be blunt but this is what happened to ours, too. I don't know if its a sperm issue or what it is, hoping one day we'll find out.

Sending lots of  ^hugme^ your way, have you got a follow up appt where you can ask all these questions? It might help.

Kerry x
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Kerry

Yeap we have a follow up in a couple of weeks
If you dont mind me asking - What did you decide to do after you BFN ? another cycle ?

Dev
 

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Hi Dev, yes we went back and back again and have now had three icsis all with neg results (and none to freeze either). We're now booked in to see a urologist specialising in male infertilty at the end of this month to further look into dh's sperm in an attempt to find out if they would ever be capable of success at icsi. I feel I need to do this now before putting ourselves through another tx if there's never going to be any hope of it working.

I'm not sure exactly what the urologist can do in terms of testing and how much of a definitive answer he'd be able to give us from the results but I'll be posting details of what happens and the outcome on the MF board here if you want to check back and see if it helps you in any way. Also have a look at some of the previous threads on clinics for MF, they seem few and far between - from what I've read argc seems to take it into account (and just so happens that the urologist we're seeing will work in conjunction with them if you wish), or cornell in New York which I think is one of the top in the world for MF but a cycle over there incl. accommodation, flights etc comes to about £20 grand some women have reported!!!

Best of luck for your follow up lovey. Which clinic are you at?

Kerry x

 

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hi, running out so quick msg.

1. no idea why you assume no early blasts equals issues with motility/count.
not connected!!

the embryo has formed so the motility/count were enough (if doing ivf). actually you had icsi, so they become totally irrelevent issues!

2. many many people get NO blasts at all. this can actually be down to the LAB more than other things.

3. I oscillate between thinking "best to select the best ones at blast" and thinking "better to get ANYTHING back in the body"

4. i see on these boards all the time, though, women of 25 with only 2 emrbyos and they are put back at day 2. they often get bfp. Equally i see women of 40 (me!) with 8 embryos, 4 blasts and 2 put back and they get bfn. it's more to do with egg quality than anything else. if you don't mind my asking, how old is your wife?

5. lastly, don't be downheartened, you and your wife are NOT ALONE!! ridiculously in my view people seem to do many many ivfs/icsis. Medical science hasn't evolved enough for it to work more frequently unfortunately.

GOOD LUCK!

 

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meant to say, in deciding about blast or not, don't be fooled by clinic success rates.

they will ALWAYS be higher with blasts as blasts have gone through another stage that other embryos get stuck at. an extreme example would be like saying "we have very high success rates wih women who are 8 months pregannt" - see what i mean?

as i say repeatedly on these boards, blasts do NOT alter fundamentals. they help you choose the embryo but they do not change implantation potential compared with the same embryo at day3. 
 

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Hi Anna I agree if an embryo has what it takes then it will stick whether transferred at day 2, day 3, blasto whatever. What has been worrying me in particular is that as ours never make it to blasto, does this mean that the sperm complement was duff? I think when an embryo is formed its the egg's dna that has the programming to develop it for the first couple of days, then that of the sperm kicks in and helps out. Seems a bit funny to me how our embies have always looked good to start with then either the ones that are transferred back to me result in bfn, or the ones they decide not to transfer are studied (they wath them for a few days, they don't just chuck them out straight away), try and get to blasto but wither away before they make it.

I have issues with clinics who are of the opinion that 'it only takes one sperm'. Yes, it does but it has to be one really good sperm and all they select them by is their general appearance when there has got to be more to it than that. If as in my case, dh's count and motility is low because of previous damage, then who's to say that the damage doesn;t extend to the actual dna of the sperm or other essential bits of it?

Kerry x
 
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