[alimar]

Hi
We've just gone through a failed ICSI cycle and are so gutted that it didn't work for us. Although we have 4 embies frozen, we really believed this would happen for us. DH is upset most of the time and having trouble working and I am at home feeling totally depressed. I know its early days as we've only known since Wed it was a BFN, but I don't think it helps when family/friends say really insenstive things without even realising it!!
We decided to only tell a few selected people and they have been great. After the BFN result I told my mum and sister (didn't wanna before as they would keep ringing to say are you pregnant yet?!!!), they have no idea at all. People have said 'well your embryos were just cells, they didn't have a soul or a brain'. Well, sorry but I believe they do have a soul and that our embies are in heaven (continuning their growth under God's care) thats the only way I can look at it.
DH and I have been invited to my cousins' babies christening!!! and we don't even see her and didn't attend the last christening of her first child. So why would we this one?!!!
Do you know what, I get so fed up with families' children, take my sisters for example, my mum reminds me to make sure I get them a birthday present and card - on time (which I always do and would do anyway without her prompting)!!! and 'oh, your sister cannot do this and that , she can't possibly because she has got 5 children you know!!! (Its like they are a burden or something!). Sorry to moan, but I am so peed off with it.
There is me and DH struggling to have a child of our own and other people are insensitive and think of their feelings only.
My mum was upset that I didn't tell her about ICSI, but then why should I? You don't say to your mum, 'oh mum, I going to have sex tonight to try for a baby' do you!!?!! Don't get me wrong, I love my mum, but I made the decision not to tell her before simply coz she fusses all the time and I don't need fussing over! and daily checks to see if i'm okay. That just causes more stress! Plus its not just me making embryos, DH is involved too! and we made that decision together which is right.
Sorry, i just needed to get that off my chest!

I think that when me and DH are ready for FET we will tell NO ONE! AT ALL.
Its the best way I think. (Even though some people knew and have been brilliant at being caring and supportive)
Other People try and say the right thing but somehow it comes out wrong! Maybe i'm over sensitive, but I don't think so.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh,   ............. I'm back to work next week and do not feel ready at all. I've had 3 weeks off, 1st week coz of E/C and E/T , then 2ww. I'm bleeding properly now and there are lots of clots (Sorry). I've decided I'm going to the doctors on monday to get me checked over and will return to work tues.

Does anyone else feel like I do?

Wish we could have had a funeral for our embies, coz they were still a life.

love alimarxx

 

[Sasha B]

Dear Alimar,

I just wanted to give you a big  ! It is such a hard time. You're right when you say that our embies are not just clumps of cells. They contain part of us and all that is needed to grow into a baby and a person. Its hard to give up those hopes when our embies don'r emplant. I think, you're right too that they are lost lost or simply cease to be, but that they are being cared for in heaven. It comforts me to know that God is looking after them. Sorry to hear about all the pressure that you have been under (unintentional I'm sure) from your family. It is hard for people to understand, when they have not expereinced it themselves. I'm sure your mum and sister love you very much and want this to happen as much as you do, but they may not realise that their choice of words is not the best. Maybe it is something you can address with them once you are feeling a bit stronger. I think you're right about maintaining good boundaries. If you don't feel you want to tell your mum next time round that is perfectly ok. You, your husband and the embies matter and what you don't need is additional anxiety.
Hope this helps. Please take care and don't give up hope 

Sasha B

 

[saphy75]

alimar

just wanted to send you a big  

i know what you mean about not telling people because of insensitive remarks. take loads of time to pamper yourselves and share plenty of cuddles with your dh  

pam xx

 

[Kelsey]

Hi alimar,

So sorry to hear your ICSI failed. It really is a horrible thing to have to go through after getting your hopes up.

I had a bfn after my first ICSI at the end of Nov, so I understand the grief you're feeling right now. It is a huge loss. I know what you mean about them being more than a bunch of cells. They felt real to me from the moment the embryologist called to say we had fertilization, and to think of them up there in heaven is a lovely thought.

In time you will start to feel stronger and ready to try again.  Pam's advice of plenty of cuddles is good advice. We couldn't have got through it without the love and support of each other.

I know what you mean about family and friends being insensitive too. Sasha's right, they don't mean it, they just don't understand what it's like. Friends of ours have just had another baby, and they were calling us everday to let us know her progress in labour, and for some reason we were 1st to be called when the baby was born!
They didn't mean it, but it felt like I was having my nose rubbed in it a bit. I just grit my teeth and wish them all the best and have a little cry when I'm on my own.

Sending you a cyber and to all your little frosties.

Take care hun,

Luv Nat xx

 

[Flopsy]

Dear Alimar,

Sending lots of cyber hugs to you. ((Alimar)).

IVF is a really painful and unfair business and having an insensitive family on top makes it much worse.

I feel the same way about my embies and I imagine many women do. From the moment they were created I saw them as our potential children. I do appreciate that others may feel differently but it is how I felt. Not in any sort of religious or moral way just my own feelings.

Those of us who are facing IVF failures are simply not being treated with enough respect by clinicans, society in general and in some cases friends and family.

I remember reading about women experiencing miscarriage in years past and the appalling way they were once (and probably still are) treated. Churches would in some cases not bury the lost babies or let them have services. Hospitals would treat these dead babies as hospital waste and parents were not recognised as bereaved.

I am not trying to open a debate about the rights of fetuses or abortion or any other topic.  What I am talking about is the way in which the women experiencing different tragic events in infertility have been treated historically in a dismissive and insensitive way.

My SIL had an ectopic pregnancy and she said that people did not recognise her feelings about the loss of the baby and the typical response was to just keep trying. People with IVF are often being treated like this.

When I my recent negative I emailed my family first with the bad news. I told my brothers and sisters that it was now 10 potential nieces and nephews we had lost.  That is for me, a tragic number. We saw them before the ET, named them and feel the loss of each one.

Many people would argue that I am being unduly sentimental and it is my "own fault" for being so attached to them and therefore being so upset afterwards. There is some merit in this but the same argument could be attached to the way women were (and are) treated over miscarriage and the death of children in early life. When infant mortality was high many children did not make it past their first birthday.  Were the women who mourned these children at fault for becoming too attached?

I was surprised how strongly I felt about the death of my embies as I am probably not the worlds most maternal woman and quite scientific/pragmatic by nature.

It appears that we have a big education program in front of us to try and change the attitudes of families and of society.

Yes, we need a funeral for our embies and I can't see why we can't develop some sort of memorial or formal process.

If anyone has any ideas please post.

With love to you and all the ladies facing this form of bereavement from,

 

[Deb10]

Hi Alimar

Just to say Im thinking of you and sending you a big hug.

I also feel the same way about my embies - having 'oscar' and 'olly' on board, my Dh and I talking to them every day its hard not to be attached to them. Also we have so many hurdles to get through before we get to the final stage of our embies  being put back -when they are - well to me its feels like they coming home...if this makes sense?

Friends and family say to me too - just try again, you know its only 1/3 success rate etc, why not adopt of just call it a day....its painful and its hurts. Sometimes they are trying to be helpful and have no idea what we going through- however these days when i hear a particulary insensitive remark, i remain calm, take a few deep breaths and put my view across. Im tired of my DH and I living in our private pain and people making (family and close friends) assumptions and thinking what they are saying is okay and for us to keep quiet and cry and get angry in private. Ive had enough and Im speaking my mind from now on and putting across our point view...

Its also really hard and  going through treatment and not telling anyone - we initially did this and the stress was to much.... confided in a few close friends and family which has helped - some of my friends/family have really upset us and we have decided to limit the amount of info we give them or see or speak to them on our terms. Going through treatment is stressful enough without alot more insensitivty from the one's we love.

Wishing you luck for the dr's on Mon... on for work on Tues .. its a big step going back... try and think of one day at a time... thinking of you - with much love Debs xx

 

[Fee]

Flopsy - you've said it brilliantly. I feel like taking your post and showing it to all my family - who have completely ignored or brushed away as idiotic our pain at our embies not making it.
Mabel was a bit of a surprise, but I dreamed of Max and him being the baby we so wanted for over a year. When he made it through the defrost AND had the Mabel surprise for us we were so thrilled. If they had stuck and been a confirmed pregancy it wouldhave been, literally that - a confirmation of something we already had connected with as part of our family.
Alimar I felt just the same as you do. Our negative has knocked me for six - and my sister in law, when I emailed her to tell her - just ignored the email and kept ranting on about her stuff. As Flopsy says - these are their potential neices and nephews.
So huge hugs to all of us - and I'm with Flopsy - we need to change attitudes fast

Fee xxxxxx

 

[saphy75]

hi girls sorry to jump in here but i just need to vent 

it is one year today that af showed up and ruined my first first ivf attempt, i'm shocked how badly it is still getting to me i spent most of yesterday crying i keep on thinking what might of been i really wasn't expecting to feel this way, it's as though i'm still grieving for my little embies and that makes me feel so stupid coz all my family and friends just think i should get over it and i get coments like "oh well it's not like you lost a baby" while i know in some ways they are right so why do i feel such loss ?? arrrgggggg makes me wanna scream oh well sorry to winge on thanks for reading

pam xx

 

[alimar]

Thank you all for your kind words and support.
Well, i'm back to work tomorrow, took an extra day as I'm on anti-biotics for a possible infection. G.P is unsure as it may be due to e/c and i've been 'caught' down there or something!
anyway, if it isn't gone by next week then I have to go back to G.P for some swab tests.
Me and DH are still depressed, but trying to move forward. I keep crying and yesterday at the doctors I saw my notes on screen from the Clinic saying 2 grade 1 embies were transferred, 4 grade 2's are frozen and 1 was a grade 4.
Well I nearly burst into tears in there coz I didn't even know the grade 4 embie had been graded. The embryologists just said that it stopped dividing. I wish they had told us the truth and that they will not freeze grade 4's.
I felt all emotional again and came home crying.

Its comforting to know that DH and I are not the only ones in this position and thank you again for all of your support. Hope and pray we all get our BFP's .... asap!

Flopsy and Fee - yes you are right, thank you for that. People do not seem to recognise grief with IVF/ICSI failures and loss of embryos.
Some people say, 'oh well it wasn't meant to be', but then again, would they say that comment to a couple who had lost their baby once it had been born? probably not! or a child dying later in life. They surely wouldn't then say, oh it wasn't meant to be'.
Saphy - yep, my family said that to me, re: 'oh its not like you've lost a baby'.... well yes we all have, embryos are a life created.. It makes me so cross, but I too (like you Deb10) am trying to answer people back. I've also had that comment, 'why don't you adopt'!!!!!!!!
agrrrrrrrrggggggggggg.

Kelsey and sashaB - thank you also for your support.

I will not be on line much now due to going back to work, but I will keep checking the site at weekends.

thanks again for all of your support,

love alimar xx

 

[Deb10]

Nice to hear from you Alimar - will pray for all of us....

Flopsy your posting was excellent - thank you. Debs xx

 

[Gwendolyn]

Hi All
Just wanted to say that many words here validate me....and I need to hear that I am not the only one feeling so "ugly" inside. 
Last Wed. 9th, I learned that DIVF (which initially started as a DIUI) ended up in a BFN.....I feel like I am only NOW coming up for air (drowning in tears!).
I. too, am tired of feeling so isolated from peers and family who are so ill-prepared to deal with the daily pain of my life (and my DH's) that they figure they will share "success stories" of adoption and/or do not get how attached and hopeful you andf your DH can become when you get to see an ultrasound of those embryos inside of you!!!  I get tired of the "maybe next time" passing comments ....without the recognition of how much I feel heart-broken and gut-wrenched!
There are loved ones really doing a fine job of supporting us AND fighting for us to KEEP HOPE because we are not strong enough to fight right now....and I am so grateful for that...........even though, there is a part of me that feels so hurt and angry that I am paralysed ...and cannot seem reach out and show them how much I need them to keep doing that for me and my DH.  I am scared.

Anyway, just want to thank-you all for providing a safe place for my mind to rest and feel less alone.  I feel so exhausted from this...I think I will leave my note at this.
Take care, Gwendolyn

 

[Fee]

lovely post Gwendolyn - that's just how I feel about family and friends - they have no idea how painful all this is. And yes - you are not alone xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Flopsy]

Hi girls,

Yesterday had a knock at the door and there was a huge bunch of flowers from my family. I nearly died of surprise as this is the first time they have ever done anything like this.

Sadly, they forgot that I am allergic to pollen and to flower scents. I tried seperating all the very bad ones (lillies etc) and gave these to the neighbours.  Bad asthma, headache and chestpain/breathing difficulties since then.

DH has just gone up and given the rest of the flowers to the neighbours as I think the pollen got all over them.  Have all the windows open.

Oh, well. It was a very nice thought and I have thanked them. Sometime in the future I'll drop a hint and remind them that I am allergic....

Just want to scream with frustration now. Makes me sound like a spoiled princess doesn't it?

With love from,

 

[Flopsy]

Dear Alimar,

I just noticed that it is your birthday today. Hope you had a good one.

Sending you a cyber glass of champagne!  Cheers.

With love from,

 

[raik]

alimar, i know how you feel and i  have also not told my mom before treatment but unfortunaltey am still unable to tell her after the ICSI and IVF i had last year anyone any good ideas how you tell your mom you are never going to be a mom??!! Its mothers day soon and it is so hard...

 

[jilly]

Hi Almar,
Only just read your note and had a good bubble. I know exactly how you feel. We had our third failed icsi treatment in Dec and I'm finding it really hard to cope. At the momment everyone is getting on my nerves. I like you hope that there is a place where our ebies have gone and take some comfort from that thought).
Although I don't want others to feel as bad as me it's good to know I'm not going mad with all these feelings I have towards others who are not going through treatment like us.
Hope you are ok. Jilly x

 

[Flopsy]

Hi girls,

Have any of you noticed how the media requests section is all

.. would like to interview someone successful after many attempts

What about those of us who keep trying and failing?!?

With love to you all from,

 

[jess p]

Alimar,
Your post made me feel so sad.  I guess it's the fact that we go through so many stages of ttc. eg. clomid, iui & then onto ivf/icsi & by the time you get that far you have become so desperate as you know there are so few other options left.
The embies are also the closest many of us have come & I guess that's why we get so hurt by the insensitivity of others.  I suppose they just don't know what to say but often it would be better if they didn't say anything.

I really feel for you & DH at the moment - will be thinking of you.
Jess x