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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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One of the reasons why we picked a research based clinic run by a University  :)
 

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mine also ploughs its profits back into research.
 

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Actually i've got to be honest, i don't have a problem with these guys making lots of money - they have dedicated their lives and energies into studying and researching this - this isn't a 9-5 job, they work hours and hours making sure they get it just right.

Without their expertise and dedication, i wouldn't have my daughter.  If it only paid the same as a 'standard' nhs doctor for example then it woudln't encourage people to dedicate themselves to it.

cost of the drugs is a bit of a nightmare though....
 

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Have to say I'm kind of with Sally on this....

....they've spent years getting where they are now and are trying to help us achieve our dreams of having a baby.

Our clinic (BMI Chelsfield) is a private hospital but also used as satellite for all NHS IVF treatment from Princess Royal in Farnborough (Kent).  Our private consultant is not only a fertility specialist but also does other gynae stuff plus being an obstetrician....and all this for 2 private hospitals and the NHS (amongst other stuff as I know he teaches minimal access surgery too !!!)....pretty busy man !

To be honest, I have no qualms about these guys making some money (and many are involved in research in some way too).....when you compare it to 20 year old footballers who are on say £30k a week (or more !!), it's really just small change !


Just my opinion.....

N xx
 

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I don't believe that it should be regulated but the problem is when so much treatment is outside the NHS and there are people willing and able to pay, it's a sellers market and prices will be high, meaning there are other who are unable to pay.

If we all got our three goes on the NHS and the NHS were only prepared to pay for treatment that was evidence based and suited to the recipient the costs would be lower but still fair to the professionals involved.

I think any specialism in the NHS required dedicated people - I work with a doctor who specialises in bowel disease - he more than earns his money!! but most I meet in my work do it for far more than the money, I don't think there's a salary big enough to cover the responsibility whether it's creating a family or saving somebody's sight.

Just my 2p  :)

Heather

PS But I'm totally with you on the footballers!
 

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droogie said:
I think any specialism in the NHS required dedicated people - I work with a doctor who specialises in bowel disease - he more than earns his money!! but most I meet in my work do it for far more than the money, I don't think there's a salary big enough to cover the responsibility whether it's creating a family or saving somebody's sight.
Completely agree with you ! I know when we went for our follow up appointment after our 6th unsuccessful treatment, the consultant actually said how she and the others (ie embryologists & nurses) were terribly upset for us that it hadn't worked...again. They've been with us through so much that it can become personal in some instances. (Consultant was NHS last 2 IVFs as was our 2 funded cycles....but all same hospital staff and works alongside our private consultant)

We could be cynical and say these consultants/clinics just want the money but I believe (in most instances) that they want it to work....not just cos of their hospital stats, but because they genuinely care...........
 

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I think if they didn't care, they wouldn't go into it. You've got to want to do it.

My consultant gave me a big hug when i went in after i got pg!
 

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sallywags said:
I think if they didn't care, they wouldn't go into it. You've got to want to do it.

My consultant gave me a big hug when i went in after i got pg!
Too true....there's an awful lot of emotion involved....not just for us but they're humans to (believe it or not !) and must be hard at times to "switch off" completely when you've spent all day with couples going through what we do, time after time......
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
To be honest I haven`t had a good experience on the NHS and we are having to look into going private as a result and having to pay much more. It sounds like to me from you ladies who have been to private clinics already that they are more organised and work harder. As my NHS clinic only does EC Monday, Wednesday, Fridays and they aren`t even open weekends, Sat mornings they only do ETs and nothing else. If they really cared they would work just as hard as the private clinics. I don`t know if other NHS clinics are like this as well as I`ve only had experience with one :'(
 

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I am also with the NHS and I couldn't fault the staff at al - they've been fantastic.  The problem I  have with the NHS is that it's a production line and with IF treatments it isn't just the "one size fits all" approach that they have.
 

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RosesAreRed said:
To be honest I haven`t had a good experience on the NHS and we are having to look into going private as a result and having to pay much more. It sounds like to me from you ladies who have been to private clinics already that they are more organised and work harder. As my NHS clinic only does EC Monday, Wednesday, Fridays and they aren`t even open weekends, Sat mornings they only do ETs and nothing else. If they really cared they would work just as hard as the private clinics. I don`t know if other NHS clinics are like this as well as I`ve only had experience with one :'(
Our private clinic and NHS clinic are one and the same.......the nursing staff and embryologists are all the same....

I would imagine the reasons why NHS clinics only do ECs on certain days is because they have to allocate theatre time to not only IVF but to many many other things too...... personally I don't think you can really say "if they really cared they would work just as hard".....not sure that's a very fair judgement when NHS is underfunded (in my opinion) and NHS staff work incredibly hard (my aunts a nurse, not fertility admittedly, and she works her @rse off !)

We've had 2 full IVFs and 2 FETs done privately and 2 full IVFs done on NHS.....and all were completely tailored to me, closely monitored and not "one size fits all".

Perhaps it could just be that you've unfortunately experienced a bad situation but don't thinks should make generalised judgements when only had experience of one NHS hospital and no other (private or NHS)

Anyway, going off on a tangent really as article was relating to how much private consultants earn and not private V NHS ;)

Again, just my opinion
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
♥ Minxy ♥ said:
personally I don't think you can really say "if they really cared they would work just as hard".....not sure that's a very fair judgement when NHS is underfunded (in my opinion) and NHS staff work incredibly hard (my aunts a nurse, not fertility admittedly, and she works her @rse off !)
I wasn`t referring to the NHS staff, I`m sure there are those that do work really hard, but merely to my fertility clinic not doing procedures 7 days a week. Why should our txs be jeapordised because they are underfunded? If funding is the problem then more funding really needs to be provided to these clinics. We go through enough as it is. I am not only saying this because I have had a "bad experience" with them but just stating the obvious with 'my previous clinic'. I have aslo self-funded with them before having my NHS go, so I`m not speaking on just one bad experience.

This topic is actually related with the reason behind why private fertility clinics cost more, because demand for them is more.

You are lucky that you have had a positive experience, I guess it`s not the same for everyone.
 

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RosesAreRed said:
I wasn`t referring to the NHS staff, I`m sure there are those that do work really hard, but merely to my fertility clinic not doing procedures 7 days a week. Why should our txs be jeapordised because they are underfunded? If funding is the problem then more funding really needs to be provided to these clinics. We go through enough as it is. I am not only saying this because I have had a "bad experience" with them but just stating the obvious with 'my previous clinic'. I have aslo self-funded with them before having my NHS go, so I`m not speaking on just one bad experience.

This topic is actually related with the reason behind why private fertility clinics cost more, because demand for them is more.

You are lucky that you have had a positive experience, I guess it`s not the same for everyone.
Sorry but I have no intention in turning this into a major debate....I'm completely with you that NHS fertility should receive more funding....I'm hardly going to disagree with you am I ?! What I am saying though is that you can't "blame" them for not being open 7 days a week when they don't have the funding........and also that they will be sharing theatre time with other areas/depts so will probably only be given allotted slots to carry out EC/ET. No, it's not fair that treatment may be jeopardised but I also don't think you can say they don't care enough otherwise they'd work just as hard as private....sorry, jsut feel it's a bit harsh to say that.
I also didn't say you'd only had one bad experience ie one treatment cycle....what I said was that you shouldn't judge all NHS hospitals when you've only had experience of one...ie not had experience of other NHS or private hospitals. I wish that there was far more funding for IVF on NHS, of course I do and I also know that private consultants make money because there's a constant requirement........personally I think they should all get the money because of the job they do !

As for your comment "You are lucky that you have had a positive experience"....well I suppose it really depends on what you class as lucky.....6 treatment cycles and 2 mc's through FET (not inc 2 naturally conceived) I wouldn't call myself "lucky" but yes, we've had a good experience at our hospital in terms of treatment, just not in terms of success ! :(

take care
Natasha
 

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sallywags said:
Actually i've got to be honest, i don't have a problem with these guys making lots of money - they have dedicated their lives and energies into studying and researching this - this isn't a 9-5 job, they work hours and hours making sure they get it just right.

Without their expertise and dedication, i wouldn't have my daughter. If it only paid the same as a 'standard' nhs doctor for example then it woudln't encourage people to dedicate themselves to it.

cost of the drugs is a bit of a nightmare though....
I kind of disagree with you Sally (sorry) I know they are experts in this field but as for the "running taxi metre", that's totally wrong, what about the people who cannot afford this, "TOUGH LUCK MATIE" should have been richer, not right that if you want to TTC you must remortgage house etc.
It's all about money isn't it :mad: why does it have to be so expensive?
 

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Yes, it is difficult that it is all about money - but at the end of the day they have slogged their guts out to get there and research this huge subject, and make the massive breakthroughs that they have.  This takes time, effort and money.

It's the drugs bill that gets my goat!!
 

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I agree that it does seem that they are making a HUGE amount of money but in a free market of supply and demand that's almost bound to happen!

Also, I am sure many of them see it as a vocation, but at the end of the day it's their job and they're entitled to make money! 

I'm afraid I have to agree with RosesAreRed and Nix76 - my experience of the 2 different NHS hospitals was far inferior to my experiences of private treatment (note my profile!!).  Including the care/sensitivity of the nursing staff and doctors.  They didn't explain treatments, FSH testing, call with results when they said they would, etc, etc.

At the second hospital I really felt that the doctor couldn't care less whether the treatment worked or not.  He made it quite clear from the outset, that inspite of me being well within their own limits for upper FSH levels, he didn't expect me to respond well to the drugs.

I won't go into the full details here but when I wrote and complained I received a 2 page letter full of the most awful abuse, calling me a "liar" - including labelling me a "troublemaker" for wanting to have my treatment at my local hospital or at ISIS (a private clinic who were willing to do all the treatment at the same price as the satellite private clinic the NHS used,  and all under one roof) which is only 20 mins away.

Instead I was expected to travel over an hour to the hospital and get there for 8 am - where I would have my eggs removed, wheeled out into the corridor to be told in full view of the waiting room how many eggs were retrieved - DH would then have to take the eggs in an incubator plugged into his car cigarette lighter, drive 2 hours to Bourn Hall, do his bit wait for the eggs to be fertilised, drive them back in the incubator to the NHS hospital where the would be put back into me and we would then have to drive home - the same day!!!!!

Now, I think any NHS doctor who argues that this is reasonable treatment has got an ulterior motive - there is no way that this was better treatment than having it at my local hospital (NHS doctor messed up so I wasn't put on waiting list in time) - 10 mins away, or at my private clinic who wanted to do the treatment for the same cost but were refused on the grounds that there wasn't an exisiting contract between them!

I feel very sad about the fact that NHS treatment in my area is so poor.  I have had various other dealings with our NHS hospital - heart, eye, dermatology clinics and they have been superb!

I think this government and the NHS PCTs have dangled token treatment in front of people who are desperate to have families.  Because the private clinics are expensive, people are grateful for their free goes.  If you happen to match the "text book" cycle - great, it may well work - if not then, sorry, you need to start saving!

Because of my experiences I am happy for the private clinics to make good money - we have spent a fortune on treatment but I felt I got what I paid for.

I guess it's just different in different PCTs.

My best experience had definitely been in Athens - the treatment from our cons is FANTASTIC - she emails, phones, texts all the time!  She has even had patients stay at her house when it's difficult to get accommodation at short notice!  Penny is def worth every last Euro!

Anyway, sorry to go off on one!!  It's just something that I have had experience of that has made me feel very strongly!

Good luck to everyone else.

Love Jess xxx
 
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