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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
DS is 10 months and he has never been a good sleeper. He cant settle himself to sleep. With DD at his age I could put her in her cot awake and she would go to sleep.

He had colic until about 5 months so every night when I put him down he would wake within 10 minutes screaming in pain and I couldnt leave him, because being upright eased the pain for him. So I dont know if this has meant he only wants to go to sleep on me.

Tonight I spent 2 hours picking him up and putting him back down before he finally fell asleep (and he got up again an hour later) I dont go straight to him, trying to leave longer and longer gaps. But leaving him to cry doesnt work he just keeps crying and eventually turns to sobs.

During the day for naps it can take a few attempts to get him to sleep in pram or cot. He will go to sleep if I go for a walk with the pram. At least when MIL has him on Thurs when Im at work she can take him for a walk at nap times but childminder on Tuesdays is struggling because she has other children she cant always go for a walk.

I cant think how I should tackle this I need some ideas. Help please
 

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have you tried not pickinh him up, but just reassuring with a gentle touch and then leaving again for a bit?

 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yeah Piepig I've tried that but he just bats my hand away  ::)  and carries on screaming
 

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DD used to be an awful sleeper (not sure I dare type this in case i jinx it), but she has really improved and can now self settle fine.  It took a lot of effort though.  I read a book by andrea grace which goes through different techniques for settling and different case studies as well.  We used to go in and just lay a hand on her chest and shh shh, she would continue to cry the first times we did it (who knows what the neighbours thought) and we would stay until she calmed down, after a while she would calm down after just a moment or two of contact and then we would leave the room.

I hope you find something that works for you cos I know how hard it can be when they just won't settle.
 

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Jane 1604 - ^hugme^

We are working on exactly the same thing with DD (11 months). With my fingers crossed touching wood and not wanting to jinx it ^reiki^ .... it is definitely having an effect. We've temporarily moved her twin out, and are doing something based on a technique called "kiss to sleep". She is clearly angry at being left a lot of the time, rather than upset, and we are going in every 3 mins, patting briefly, saying "night night" and leaving. We've been doing it nearly 2 weeks (I've heard it takes about that long). Yes - the first night it took an hour and she roared louder as we walked away, but last night she didn't peep all night, and most of this week she's either yelled in her sleep and self-settled, or snuggled down after 1 visit. It's fab. It's not a fast fix like CC, but I couldn't do that. The first night DH did it as I sobbed into a bottle of wine, but the next night he was working and I did it - it's perhaps easier to do than to watch someone else do, IYKWIM.

You must bear in mind that whatever strategy you choose, there will be a pain barrier to get through, but the feeling once you've decided on a plan is great - at least you know how the night will go, rather than waiting to go to bed because you know the minute you do you'll be up again. And once you've started you know you've got to keep it up to make it worth it.

If you want any more info, shout. I wish I'd done it a month ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Good work Elle. Must e so much harder with 2


Nap didnt go well this morning. I tried for hr and half to get him to sleep. By which time it was lunch time and I knew if we had lunch late the rest of the day will go to pot. So we've had lunch and he is happily playing on the floor, not looking the least bit tired  ::)  he was tired at nap time rubbing his eyes ears etc.


When I put him down he did cry but I left the room and went back a minute later gave him a kiss and lay him back down and left. After about 40 minutes he would stop crying when I gave him kiss and lay him down. But after I left the room he started crying again. So maybe he was getting the idea. Will try again for nap shortly.


I've only got 3 days to work before christmas and then off for 2 weeks so I think I will really have to tackle this. He wont settle for DH so I think I am on my own. The days at MIL/childminder he has naps in pram so not so easy for them but I dont mind if they take him for walk at nap times
 

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Hi

W is 9 months and wont self settle in the day at all, he either falls asleep in pram or car.
I did the self settling routine at night about a month ago and it did take about a week to get him from screaming everytime I laid him down to just crying for a min or 2 then falling asleep
Now he is awake when I lay him down after his feed at bedtime and no crying and he falls asleep within a few mins

What I did have to remind myself that was when he was crying not to go in before 2 mins was up to settle him as I was hearing him cry for a few seconds and going in and settling him and not giving him the full 2 mins before going in again. I even had to count in my head sometimes ;D
Also I would only pick him up ( there was no way just a head touch etc was going to settle him) over the cot with no rocking him etc then as soon as he stopped crying etc I would lay him down awake and for first few nights this meant he would cry instantly I put him down but I just continued to walk out the room for the 2 mins

It is really hard work ^hugme^

xxx
 

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Elle,

Your post rings bells with me. One of my girls has reverted to waking every 2 1/2 hours, and she's up on the cot rail crying. She used to be able to settle but now won't. Her sister wakes up screaming at the beginning of the night and needs picking up to calm down. I've tried the three/six/nine minute approach but it doesn't work. Somebody suggested that this was separation anxiety kicking in but, if so, how long is it going to last??

What's the 'kissing to sleep' thing you mentioned? Any advice gratefully received.

xx
 

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I'd be interested in the kissing to sleep technique too.
My almost 11 month dd has slept soundly in her own cot in her own room from 2 months of age (due to noisey neighbours - otherwise I'd have kept her crib in with us for a few more months) - she even went to sleep on her own, no problem.  She suffered a cold a few months back and to be honest her sleeping patterns have deteriorated steadily since then!  More recently she was diagnosed with bronchiolitis, but she's back to her usual bubbly self BUT she has taken to sleeping with us, when I say sleeping with us, she sleeps we dont hahahaha - but its getting to the stage where as soon as we transfer her to her own cot in her own lovely room, OMG all hell breaks loose.!
Hubby fetches her in with us just to get some peace, but I'm really wanting the break the cycle of her crying like a little she devil and getting in with us and its causing arguments.  I have to say though, she can be whaling like a banshee, but as soon as her back hits our matress, in goes the thumb and she's out like a light !!!

Ordinarily I wouldn't mind her sleeping with us, its not like we have a sex life these days hahahaha - but I usually end up sleeping on the sofa and I don;t know how much more my poor old aching back can take.... so yep, any suggestions would be fab - we're trying the controlled crying but we're having limited success.
Cheers girls
Sheila
 

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((hugs)) it's hard work isn't it

Have you tried putting rolled up cellular blankets either side of her in her cot? As I had to do that with W when he moved into his cot.

Hope you get some good sleep soon
x
 

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Thanks Suzie, I'll give it a try with the blankets hun.
To be honest I've done a heck of a lot of browsing and research on the subject of sleep behaviours and babys sleep problems, and whilst I'm glad that 'baby whisperers' work for some parents, unfortunately I don't have the money or the inclination to line peoples pockets with substantial amounts of cash I can ill afford anyhow....especially when my boilers packed up and the car insurance is due (and I've just forked out for my road tax for the next year, and filled my petrol tank brim full before the hike in VAT kicks in)!!!!

I did actually find a site/ online support / book for only £13 on the net - and whilst I don't agree with some of the techniques (basically letting the poor little ones cry themselves to sleep constantly!!!) there are a few ideas and tricks I can try - and to be honest in my case the problem is obvious....Hannah is using our bed as a crutch and when she wakes up in her cot, she's disoriented - so I'm going to try a mix of controlled crying with lots of kisses and 'gradual withdrawal'... this is basically sleeping in Hannahs room and gradually getting back to my own bed (this is probably the best option for us, bearing in mind hubbys a shift worker).... but rather than offering contact numbers of the local baby whisperer, if anyone wants any ideas from the book I have I'm more than happy to give an indication of whats involved in the techniques involved.

But seeing as my boiler / heating / hot water is off - we'll just continue to snuggle down together - will lety you know how it goes tho.
All the best and Happy New Year to everyone.
Sheila
 

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Elsbelle/Sheila - just remembered to check this thread, sorry.
Well, we "trained" DD a few weeks ago and although it's been a bit of a rubbish evening tonight with her yelling (2 or 3 squeals then silence) in her sleep every 45 mins since she went down, she has at least stayed asleep/gone straight back to sleep, so I definitely feel like we made a difference. The technique we used is based on something called a kiss to sleep, or a kiss goodnight or something. I wasn't able to find much on the net about it, but the "proper" version I think involves doing the whole bedtime routine, and then after you've settled LO in their cots and are walking away, if they cry you go back, give them a kiss, walk a bit further, go back and kiss, walk a bit further, etc, till the almost constant reassurance calms them and they learn (eventually!) to settle and sleep on their own. Must take hours the first couple of times. We didn't quite do that, as it would have wound my screaming DD up something rotten. She had gone from being put down awake (from the beginning) and happily going to sleep, to screaming as soon as she was put in the cot and then waking often in the night to do the same. She has quite a problem with separation anxiety so I think the two are connected for her.


DS was moved out to the spare room for a couple of weeks so we could work on her. The first night DH did the work while I sobbed into a bottle of wine - hearing her scream was truly awful for me but we knew that I'd be rubbish and he was happy to deal with it the first couple of nights. He put her to bed, she screamed, and he went back in every 3 mins, laid her back down, said night night and left again. At first she would stop as he re-entered the room each time and then scream even louder as he turned to go back out. Yes, the screaming was horrible and I could never do proper CC but she was just angry. No tears, just sheer temper at not being got up and brought into the living room (which we had been doing to let DS go to sleep). It took 1 hour the first night, of him going in every 3 mins (and me wailing about whether we were "damaging her"  ^idiot^ ). Eventually she was a lot calmer and then stopped - it was still quiet when the 3 mins were up and that was it. She slept all night. Over the next few days it took 45 mins, 30 mins, and then we were just going in a couple of times and she'd give up and go to sleep. She was getting reassurance that we were there if she really needed us, but no stimulation just a boring "night night".
I just looked at the diary I was keeping of what happened - the fact that I stopped bothering to write anything after about 2 -3 weeks shows that it was working. Now she very rarely makes a fuss at bedtime, and is either waking less during the night or just self settling if she does. Can't remember the last time we've had to get up for her in the night actually. (DS, on the other hand, has been kicked out into the spare room for disturbing her for the last 2 nights, so it looks like it may be his turn next  ::) .) I must stress that we were able to do this because we picked a time when we were feeling strong, she was well, not teething etc and it was very clear to us she was annoyed, not desperately upset or scared or anything. If I'd thought she was really being traumatised I couldn't have done it. We'd luckily always put them down awake etc so we knew she could do it, we'd just started a bad habit by getting her up as soon as she cried, but it hadn't been going on too long, and they've never been in our beds. But the feeling of control it gave us back was fantastic. Just having a plan, knowing what you're going to do when she starts is so freeing. I began to look forward to bedtime to see whether we were making progress!
Good luck to any of you about to bite the bullet, I reckon the sooner the better and you'll wish you'd done it weeks ago!
 

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I just want to say I agree with everything Elle has said, we had 3-4 horrendous nights but now I do wish we had tackled the sleep situation sooner.I kept a diary for just over a week so it shows how quickly things improved, and I definitely don't believe in controlled crying.  We had to wait until DH and I could agree on what we were doing and were both there to support eachother through it and to be sure that DD was not really "in need" of anything when she was waking.

Goodluck to anyone going through it xxx
 
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