I have just started my 3rd treatment with Guys. I started sniffing on Wednesday and have my 1st scan on 13th October.
We have got to the 2ww stage both times and after the 2nd it was confirmed that my eggs are fragile and can be immature, therefore the embryos are slow to develop before ET. I did not even know that there was a problem with me until after the 2nd treatment so it was a bit of a mental blow to me and it has taken a little while to come to terms with.
DH has a low sperm count and reduced motility after a vasectomy many years ago and initially this was what we thought we were dealing with.
So we have to be realistic that our chances are reduced even further than 'normal'.
Having said that I am keeping positive if not there would be no point in me doing it!!
Guys have been v. good with us - we have had long chats about our situation and they would tell us if we were wasting our time.
If it doesnt work third time that would be D Day with the doctors.
But - we are not there yet and thoughts of that I will not entertain!!!!
Hoping for 3rd time lucky!!! Is like having a carrot dangled in front of you at the 2ww stage.
Sending you lots of and
You never know we might even bump into each other at Guys!
thanks for the reply. We have spoken before on the site just checked my old posts !
I too have my first can on the 13/10 , I think at 12. Maybe we will be for egg collection same day !!
Our 1st go was IVF where I got 9 eggs and 4 that fertilsed. I did get a positive but started to bleed.
It was so upsetting. At our follow up Guys informed us that the cycle showed poor fetilisation. That like you say really upset me. So they advised to up my drug dosage and for us to go for ICSI. With ICSI they retrieved the same amount of eggs and 5 fertilsed. I was upset at the egg amount as I really thought by upping the dosage they would get more. 5 fertised this time but i got a negative.
At my follow up we saw Alison Taylor. She was really lovely and like you say if they really thought you were wasting your time they would tell you. She advised us to go again, even though we had made our minds up already that we would.
So here we are !! Back doing it as you say hoping for 3rd time lucky !!
This is spooky - my scan is at 12.30 on the 13th!!! We also spoke to Alison Taylor after our 2nd attempt and she too was excellent with us.
I have had ICSI both times - 1st time only 4 eggs retrieved and 3 fertilised, 2nd time - 10 eggs retrieved and 3 fertilised. 2 embryos suitable for transfer each time. I got a negative both times towards the end of each 2ww and I cant imagine how it feels to get a positive and then bleed. I am very sorry.
There was no change in my dosage last time which I was concerned about but when I spoke to a counsellor at Guys she assured me that the cycle would be different whether or not my drugs were altered and she was right - the amount of eggs increased! But its not quantity its quality.
I produce loads of the right sized follicles (i think it was 18 last time) but the egg yield does not reflect this.
God that is spooky !! Will probably see you in the waiting room !!!
On the 1st cycle I started to bleed a day before testing and thought it was all over but then tested positive for a week after , all over the Christmas period so not good !!
Are you on Puregon ? I am on 400 iui . To be honest Alsion Taylor said even if you up the drugs it doesn't mean you will get more eggs. This proved the point in my case. She said she would not alter it back down to 250iui incase it went the opposite way, which obviously I would feel dissaponted with. It was Professor Braue who upped me to the 400 iui after my first go.
I have been the same, never had anything suitable for freezing which is a shame.
Good luck you too and I hope the sniffing is going alright.
The last couple of times I injected Gonal F - 300iui per day. Whether this will change this time I will have to wait until the 13th to find out. Alison Taylor said they may do this - again with us she said it probably wouldn't make much difference but it wouldn't do any harm to try.
I am away from the computer from tomorrow until Sunday night so if you reply I'm not ignoring you!
No problem, I also didn't go near the computer the weekend !
I have always been on Puregon not sure how they decide what to prescribe. It probably has something to do with the blood tests etc. Are you sniffing synarel ?
Thanks for the bubbles, not sure how to do that !! Good luck to you too. Hope you are feeling ok. x
I am really sorry to hear about your negative. It is so upsetting. I hope you are ok. This is all such a lottery !!
I have seen Prof Braude and Alison Taylor on both my follow up consultations. They also done my embryo transfers. That is probably how they work it. Whoever does the transfer is who you see when you go back for a follow up.
Have you decided to have another go and will you stay at Guys? It is still early days I know about how you feel at the moment isn't it. xx
When I went to the patient open evening on the way in you gave your name and they gave you your appointment. I think I went in the July 04 to the open evening and my appt was for September 04. I will check my diary tonight.
I didn't get a choice about who I saw at my first appointment. I saw a lady but I can't remember her name. They did peform a dummy embryo transfer at this appt because I have had a cone biopsy before. So they wanted to see if a transfer that would work smoothly, before doing the real thing. I thought this was quite good that there seemed to be forward thinking.
I have found Guy's really nice. I think the clinic itself is pleasant and the staff are really nice. Alison Taylor is really nice and friendly and also down to earth. Didn't try to blind you with science. If you get a choice I would ask to see her.
Susan - I am on Synarel and at the mo I'm fine. Last time I seemed to have a headache all the time but this is the 6th day and so far so good!
I think the drugs are very much on an individual basis as no 2 problems or treatments are the same. I think DH & I are fairly uncomplicated compared to others!
All you have to do with the bubbles is click ' blow' on the person's details who you want to receive the bubbles. If you burst someones bubbles thats a bit spiteful I believe! Hope that makes sense.
Fi - I am so sorry to hear of your loss. The 2ww is bad enough. Sending you lots of love xxx Susan is right - the first time I saw Alison was for my ET on my 2nd attempt and then for my follow up. The first time it was Jan Grace who was equally as understanding and helpful.
In fact I cannot fault anyone there. I have always felt very well looked after. Its important to feel comfortable and able to ask any questions however insignificant they may seem. We have to travel from Norfolk so we don't want to feel stressed or rushed etc when we get there and we don't feel like this at Guy's.Last time when I had my follie scan a friend of mine came with us to see what it was all about so we had a crowded scan room that day!!! I had asked them first and they were fine about it.
Willow - My patients evening was the beginning of June and was given my appointmant that night, which was 3 weeks later.
We are self-funding so I don't know if that made any difference at the time.
I too didn't get a choice of who I saw but at that meeting it was decided that ICSI was our best option.
Looking back at my old paperwork I started my treatment straight away - day 1 of sniffing was 21 July, 21 days after day 1 of my period, so I timed that well!!
Hope you don't mind me crashing your thread, I spoke to Susan and Toni earlier in the year and now by really spooky coincidence I've also just started my 3rd ICSI cycle at guys, and guess what I started sniffing on the 28th and my first scan is the 13th aswell - we can have a FF meeting in the waiting room! My other attempts showed an egg quality problem so I have been driving myself and my DH mad trying to work out what to do - there is so much conflicting advice. I was going to go for the protein supplements (lots of people have used them on here) but the Zita West book says to avoid whey protein, so now I'm trying to drink lots of milk to get extra protein. I've also started acupuncture to try to improve blood flow to the ovaries/uterus. Biggest problem here is that the acu doctor told me I had weak pulses, was cold and was kidney yang deficient (all potentially fertility probs) which means I have to avoid certain foods and cold drinks - so how do I drink 2L of water and 1L of milk a day while stimming, RT water is ok but warm milk!
Susan/Toni - Hope the sniffing is going well and you're feeling ok. I thought about changing clinics with this being our 3rd go, but decided that we had been very happy with everything at Guys (apart from the result) and their results are actually very good so decided to stick with what we know.
Willow- We went to the patients evening July 04 and were given a appointment for 3 weeks later (which we changed due to holiday) Then like Toni my appointment was on day 2 of a cycle so we were allowed to start that cycle (started sniffing 20 days later). I was funded for that cycle so it shouldn't make any difference who is paying! Like the others I have found everybody at Guys really nice and helpful, prior to ICSI 1 I spoke to the embryologists who couldn't have been more helpful!
I have just been laughing at the thought of a FF meeting in the waiting room at Guys !! Can you imagine the husbands faces !!
Joanne I do remember me , you and Toni have spoke before.
I feel fine too at the moment Toni, on day 2 Ihad a bit of a restless night but apart from that seem to feel ok.
I did drink lots of milk drinking during my last cycle. I was drinking 2 pints a day. It was hard going but I did feel I was doing something positive towards helping the treatment. I also take the Marilyn Glenville vits. I had one session of acupuncture a few months ago. Joanne where do you go for it ? I went to a Dr Herbs shop . They didn't actually tell me of any deficiency but just tried to make me buy lots of herbs, which to be honest put me off a bit. The herbs alone were something like £50 a week. They were more interested really in selling I felt. I have thought though to try somewhere else.
As for Guys I have been happy with them. I am not sure what I will do if this time fails. I have thought about getting some info about the ARGC, but from what I can see they seem really expensive. Has anyone thought of going abroad? Someone I work with daughter in law has had failed cycles at The Lister but has just fallen pregnant at a hospital in Moscow.
We have to try and stay positive maybe this will be our time at Guys ! I have friends that have been through this and it has eventually worked so there is hope !!
Hello Ladies - I'm glad to find some "Guys" friends. Sorry if I end up rambling ......
Susan - thanks for your thoughts. I bought my very large treat of chocolate ready for Thursday when I still have to do the pregnancy test.
I can't remember the lady who did my transfer this time round (I don't remember her saying) but there was such a lot going on. On my first attempt (fresh cycle) I had Jan Grace who was lovely. I have to say I didn't see her for follow up - I saw Nick Brook who confirmed m/c & talked through options etc - but he was very nice too - he ended up performing my ERPC because whilst baby had died no actual m/c started.
Once ERPC over I saw Judith Hamilton who is so lovely (by coincidence she did both the ops I had at St Thomas's) - unfortunately (for ACU) she has now joined Gynae Day Surgery at St Thomas - I think she is running it.
Alison Taylor - everyone has always spoken very highely of her - but I think they mentioned last week that she had left ? Not sure where to or if permanent ?
I have only positive things about the DR's etc at Guys - to be honest I have nothing to compare it with but I am not thinking of changing even though journey to London is a nightmare at times. Our first ICSI cyle was on NHS, we have paid for freezing embryos & our first Frozen E Txr & as this sadly appears not to have worked we will be funding next ICSI fresh cyle ourselves - whilst funds are very fortunately not a big issue (we're not loaded but I used to have a very well paid job & have stored some savings) I did find Guys prices very "reasonable" - I saw a couple of websites whilst doing a trawl on m/c following IVF & was staggered at what some clinics etc charge.
Re waiting time: we attended an open evening in Dec 03 & got appt at that meeting & were approved to start treatment in January 2004. Fortunately for me (but caused a delay) Guys did their own scans on me 7 discovered a problem with my womb - ended up needing additional scan at another hospital to confirm problems & then had to wait for 2 ops. Got the all clear to start ICSI Dec 04 & started first cycle Jan 05.
I have got say its a blessing to finally find a thread for Guys, I've been looking for ages and have had to go on The Lister for support (we had a failed cycle there)!
I just hope we can all keep it going!!!
Susan - I would recommend The Lister, they are very good at what they do but I feel we had a bad experience, we were on their egg sharing programme and I feel we were treated differently. Also I had difficulty down regging and had to have that hideous Prostap injection which was evil!! Then I only produced 5 eggs so not enough for egg sharing so we had to continue with egg collection and pay for our treatment, to get a negative at the end!! Obiously not The Listers fault its just one of those things! I've heard ARGC are brilliant but they want nearly £8000 for one ICSI cycle, who has got that kind of money!!
I'm really looking forward to Wednesday, can't wait to get my appointment! I'm due on tomorrow or Wednesday so I suppose I will have to wait another month for treatment?
Jo - Whats the significance with drinking lots of milk, I don't know many tips for helping the cycle so I would be interested to find some out!!!
Fi - The ARGC is in Upper Wimplole St. It stands for the Assisted Reproduction & Gynaecology Centre. It is meant to be excellent and has really good results but like Willow says is very expensive. They have an excellent success rate too. There is a book you can request from the HFEA and it has all the clinics success rates, what treatments they offer etc etc. I requested it on line and it arrived 2 days later . It is very useful.
Also, if you want to see if anyone has replied when you send a message click on Additional Options and there is a tick box " Notify me of replies ."
I also have met Nick Brooks. He was the doctor for my last egg colloection. I am sad to hear Alison Taylor has gone. That is a real shame.
Willow- I just checked my old diary. I attended the Patient open evening on the 1st September and my appointment was the 30 Sept. So hopefully you will not have that long to wait. It is true what you say you do judge something by your own experience. It is a shame. Drinking milk is meant to help egg quality. I drank 2 pints a day during my last. Everything helps I suppose !!
Hope we are all doing well and feeling positive about getting
Fi- Good luck for tomorrow
Willow- as Susan says I have heard drinking milk can improve egg quality, ARGC have all their stimmers on 1L of milk a day. I asked at Guys about increasing protein to improve eggs and they said nothing was proven but I'll give anything a go!
Susan- I'm going to 1st acupuncture clinic in Harrow. I did speak to the people in Dr Herbs and they seemed to be pushing the Herbs too much which I didn't want. The Dr I'm seeing is ok, he has treated people on IVF before and infertility, and he seemed to know what he was talking about. Loads of people on alternative therapies board recommend 2 in harley St. I spoke to 1 and they did seem really nice (probably more approachable/friendly than the Harrow guy) but I decided for convenience to try my local one (plus the waiting time was over 2 weeks at Harley Street!)
Jo - I hope you don't mind me asking but where in Harrow is the 1st Acupncture clinic and how much is it a session? I hope you don't mind me asking, just that I live in North Harrow. I went to the Dr Herbs in Brent x and felt they really just wanted to push the sales side of things.
I was reading on another thread earlier that someone has posted that they too have just had their 3rd cycle of ICSI and have only now found out that they have the NK immune problem. Were any of you offered the test at Guys?
Sorry I haven't replied earlier, I haven't been near a computer for the last couple of days.
The Acupuncture clinic is on Station Road, near MFI, opposite The Golden Palace Chinese - phone number 02088631699. He charges £30 an hour. I think its ok. It isn't the poshest place and while he asks a lot of questions at the initial consultation and talks to you during treatment he isn't the sort of person you warm to if you know what I mean! But he is £15 cheaper than any of the others I found, he doesn't try to flog you herbs etc and he is registered by the British acupuncture society thing. Also I was a bit sceptical but I find some of it quite amazing like how he can touch points on my scalp, burn Moxa above them and I can feel warmth moving down my legs! I can't give much more of a recommendation until my EC when hopefully they will say I've got fantastic quality eggs, which will all fertilise to give great embies and a BFP! But for now at least I feel like I'm doing something and i do feel quite calm.
As far as immune tests its something I've thought about aswell, and was one of the reasons we considered changing to ARGC. I don't know Guys policy but plan to ask them when I go in next week, although hopefully we will all be 3rd time lucky and it won't be an issue. It does seem to be the latest thing that clinics are doing but alot of the time it seems to be associated with miscarriage or other immune disorders. I think statistically taking 3 attempts to get a positive is normal so we shouldn't worry. Easier said than done!