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Thank you Cloudy
 

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AnnaKay, just want to tell you that I've just finished my second IVF stimm and the result is 5 EGGS (FIVE) -Maturated. still can't believe it . I'm still undergoing it, but with the right medications there is a chance! My first IVF was the same like yours, same meds, same result-1 egg very poor quality. I'm currently in Athens, Serum. Even if this IVF to fail I'll try with Serum again. One of the girls here told me about Serum and I'm very thankful  ^hugme^ ^hugme^ ^hugme^
Wish you all the best  ^pray^
 

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rossssss said:
AnnaKay, just want to tell you that I've just finished my second IVF stimm and the result is 5 EGGS (FIVE) -Maturated. still can't believe it . I'm still undergoing it, but with the right medications there is a chance! My first IVF was the same like yours, same meds, same result-1 egg very poor quality. I'm currently in Athens, Serum. Even if this IVF to fail I'll try with Serum again. One of the girls here told me about Serum and I'm very thankful ^hugme^ ^hugme^ ^hugme^
Wish you all the best ^pray^
Dear Rosss, please share your protocol with me. PM me if you want. I cannot change clinics as we have surgically retrieved sperm samples at Reprofit. But I can change the stimulation protocol. Thank you so much for you message. Praying for your BFP !
 

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Just trying to catch-up...

Blue, bear with me ill get you the contact details of my endocrinologist.

Sunshine, excellent news on fertilisation!!

Katkat, how are you coping in tww? Can't thank you enough for all the support this cycle it was so nice to have you by my side (virtually) . Btw am still BF.. dh is very upset about it and so am I but I just can't find it in me to stop... I do take ubiquinol been gradually increasing it to 300 since August

LXP , welcome! Sorry can't help with downreg but you are in the right place the ladies here know so much! I just do natural ivf I.e. just collect one egg per cycle without any meds

BabyHopeful, keeping everything crossed!! Btw I have been trying to get some info on my eggs but Munich is not forthcoming and embryology don't speak English so I still don't know whether the second egg was mature. I know that the eggs looked allright after collection we saw them on screen and the doc said all looked well but of course maturity will only be known once the eggs are prepared for icsi. I once had an egg that looked very strange on screen but it fertilised and once prepared for icsi it looked normal.

Anna, I'm also confused it must be a mistake . My clinic also suggested estrogen but after ovulation.

Shady, your work situation sounds super stressful! I agree with Klik it's worth checking your lining and if all is well you are good to go. I know lots of women who had full term pregnancies after  ERPC. But it's normal to worry.  Keeping everything crossed your next pregnancy will give you a healthy baby.

Mac, I used to take  Evening Primrose from cd1 to ovulation to increase my ewcm. I also drank grapefruit juice for the same reason . I really can't say whether it worked at the time I believed in it religiously but after some years I became disillusioned with supplements in general.

Klik, I know it's not what you wanted to hear but I'm actually so relieved and hopeful for you! I also had suspicions. the lining can't just stop growing normally for no reason. Well done for persevering! You now have a very good plan and an experienced surgeon. Good thing you didn't waste your embryos so now all of them will have a decent chance. And you have a chance for as bigger family as you want! I'm very very hopeful and am thinking "filmy" thoughts so you can finally  start your family the very next cycle after the surgery 

Can I ask where did you have your ERPC?

Btw my actual LH on the morning of EC was 29.6 but tbh I think it was on its way down it must have been higher the day before. My estrogen was 180 pg/ml I think it's good but I need to convert it am not quite familiar with this scale.progesterone was 0.78 ng/ml and fsh 29.6. I agree in terms of follicle size it would have been good to wait a day but my LH surged so there was no way to wait any longer. My monitor picked it up as well the next morning after I got positive opk. I suppose since at least one egg was mature for icsi this really was the best time to collect considering the circumstances . I'm really happy I still have mature eggs naturally even without the trigger shot but slightly worried we had to collect in the afternoon. I mean Munich was excellent and so efficient quickly got bloods sorted analysed and flexible enough to perform ec outside their usual schedule . I know Brno wouldn't do anything like that. So I really need to try and do the trigger shot + possibly cetrotide if follicle is small.

Turned out Munich did very extensive blood profile, I was shocked to stumble across my fsh/amh levels, they didn't even ask me and I certainly didn't want to see it. But good thing they picked up on my raised tsh 3.52, super low vit D levels 29 ng/ml (despite daily high dose supplement!!), and very high cortisol levels 240 ng/ml. Not sure what to do about cortisol but I ordered vit D in oil capsules as they seem to be better for absorption. Also not sure what roteln IgG is but I have it as well.

Ladies, has anyone had any issues with blood pressure after ec? Mine went sky high to 156×112 and would not go down. It now settled at around 135×100 but it's still very high. I don't know how to explain it. Maybe it's part of growing older to have your blood pressure increased?
 

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Just a quick msg as I’m meant to be working...

Klik, sorry to hear about the ashermans diagnosis but atleast now you know you can hopefully get it all sorted ready for your future transfer.

Briss, i’m not too sure about the high blood pressure, could it possibly be caused by the stress of it all? Just a guess.

Afm, had an update from the lab, one grade 2 embryo which has been frozen today (day 3) and the other three are only grade 3 so they are leaving then til monday to see if they go to blast. Feel a little disappointed but i guess atleast they are still going xx
 

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Sunhsine, great you have one frozen today and while you're disappointed, it is a really good sign they are all still growing. Fingers crossed for Monday. I forgot, are you banking?

Briss - No worries :) Roeteln IgG are antibodies against rubella so I would say that's a good thing! Reprofit use this new thing, a kind of a microscope to see if they can see a spindle after egg retrieval. If they don't they will wait a little longer to find the right time to icsi the egg. I think spindle shows maturity. They are always able to tell me within 1-2 hours if the egg was definitely mature or if they need to wait. Once they told me while the egg looked mature when they stripped it off the shell, the microscope didn't detect the spindle so they didn't use the egg, saved us a vial of sperm and money. I know this does't resolve the issue that they wouldn't collect the egg at 8pm. I think they'd go as late as maybe 3pm but they tend to close up by 4. At least they are open 7 days a week. Not wanting to defend R., just thought I'd mention this. Cortisol shows stress levels, and I do think this must have shown as increased as you had to do so many scans and bloods before - it makes us a nervous wreck! Sorry no idea about the blood pressure.

Ross weehheeey that's great news!

Afm nothing much to say, all totally normal. I am planning my next trip, I just don't know if I should do bloods or save the money and just use FRER to confirm the inevitable? How early can I test on an FRER after a 3-day transfer of a slow growing embryo?
 

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Katkat, how many days post transfer are you now? Fingers crossed for you.

Feeling very sorry for myself now, when we got 4 out of 5 eggs fertilise I really had my hopes up thinking we’d done so much better, but really if we only end up with one frozen then its not really any better than when we only had 1 egg fertilise to start with (i’ve been googling and now don’t hold much hope for the grade 3 embies). We’re doing a 3 cycle banking package, this is the 1st one, but if at the end of the 3 cycles things don’t work out then we will have to give up as we can’t afford to keep paying out for treatment and also can’t carry on living this way. So this cycle we did 150 bemfola moving onto 225 menopur, any ideas what i should try next cycle? Sorry for moaning x
 

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Hey sunshine, I am only 5dp3dt. Will 11dp3dt be good to test? Bearing in mind that it was only a 5 cell and with my 8 cells I had a low bhcg (68) on 13dp3dt.  I've never used a frer after transfer except for once (and i regretted it as i tested on a cheapo and it was negative but then my period didnt come; wished I had known if I'd had implantation). I've always done bloods otherwise. Reprofit told me to wait the full 14dp3dt but I want to plan next steps and not delay af unnecessarily

Sorry you're having such a hard time with your eggs as I know this feeling so well,  you'd want 4 good eggs and not just 4 eggs, as what's the point of collecting more than 1 if the result is the same. I've been in this situation before but mine usually disappear before day 3 or aren't mature to start with so bearing in mind  that yours are still growing then they have a chance!
 

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Still trying to catch up...

Hopeful_81, thank you. My new job is OK, they are very patient with me as I'm trying to catch up with everything but I have already took a few days to WFH which I think might not be the best way forward particularly so early on. Where about in NZ are you? I loved it there. Definitely take your time to relax and look after yourself! I'm sorry about your lining. Did your AF change after ERPC? Possibly hsg is the way forward like klik suggested and hopefully it'll be fine. I'll be hoping for your natural pregnancy. Unfortunately I don't know much about tamoxifen except that my dh had to take it to improve sperm but it didn't work.

susie, just a quick one to thank you. I got this taxi app you recommended and it's also great for black cabs in London :) how are you?

Tily, 're sperm that's so random but good news that morphology and motility were ok. Gingers crossed for natural miracle!

rosalindc, I'll let ladies to comment but I think there was some improvement noted in amh levels after stem cell therapy.

Sunshine, that's good news one embryo is on ice with potentially 3 more. Keeping everything crossed.

Katkat, Thanks! rubella is good, I'm glad they did it so now I know my level of immunity. You are right Reprofit is much better in terms of maturity , I got the maturity result very shortly after collection. What I meant is they don't rely on bloods  so much, they may offer later ec but I don't think they'd do bloods and review the results immediately. What do you think? Would they? Btw I don't think Munich would collect at 8 pm. I had my collection at 2 and I think this is as far as they can stretch cos they do transfers in the afternoon. And yes the fact that Reprofit collects on weekends is a huge selling point for me. Btw I'd do bloods hcg on 11 dpo just in case so you know in case of any chemical, very important. Otherwise frer on 11 dpo is usually pretty reliable
 

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Katkat, yes I would think 11dp3dt would be fine to test with a frer. Hopefully it’ll be BFP but if not what are you planning as your next step? 

Do you think theres much chance that poor quality embryos on day 3 can pick up to make ok blastocysts? Not sure what to do now if to go straight into another cycle if I can, or wait a month and then risk more delays cos of a cyst, and also please can anyone who has included letrozole or similar let me know what their protocol was as I think I may ask to try that this time. Xx
 

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KatKat you can test earlier, on days 9-10 on a sensitive HPT that detects hCG levels as low as 10 units. But blood tests are undeniably the gold standard. Keeping fingers crossed for a BFP!

Sunshine, don't lose hope. If you can, you could try successive cycles, some REs believe that ovarian response improves with consecutive stimulations. Poor embryos do sometimes become babies, so why not hope for the best? Letrozole/Femara is usually included in mild stimulations, is this what you had this time?

Briss, German clinics are very good when it comes to bloods and personalised service. As you know, Brno don't do bloods, and that is not ok in my opinion, especially for poor responders/DOR patients. Truth is they are a bit superficial, although their labs and embryologists are good.

Today I was shocked to discover that my clinic sent me a protocol that contained a huge error. I will do estrogen priming starting later this cycle and they insisted I should start priming on day 26. I wrote them twice (once in December, once yesterday) to tell them that my menses begins on day 24, there is no day 26 for me. Besides that, estrogen priming is done before AF arrives, not after. They just assumed everybody has a 28 day cycle, so day 26 means 2 days before AF. It is crucial to know the patient's cycle length for IVF stimulation, and the info regarding my 24-25 days cycle was clearly mentioned in my file. What if I was a patient who just does what her dr. says, no questions asked? I am terribly disappointed with them, to be honest. My dr. does answer all my mails promptly, but the negatives regarding the protocols just keep pilling up. They keep using the same generic protocols and sometimes I feel they expect you to fail and accept DE sooner, ready or not, for everybody's sake.
 

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Afternoon Ladies

This group must win the prize for the best responses and support - Part 6!! Have you all been here since the beginning.

I really welcome your comments so thank you Briss, Katkat, Babyhopeful, Shandywheat, and Klik for your comments. This is my first cycle so a lot of the abbreviations and processes are extremely new to me.

Fingers crossed for a BFP KatKat, but I would not test before day 11 as it may be a false negative and although its hard this would only cause hopefully unnecessary upset.
 

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Anna, I would be concerned too if my clinic made an error like that, and like you say many people wouldnt question it. Do you know what day you will start the estrogen for and for how long?

So for my mild protocol i didnt take femara/letrozole, just 150 bemfola day 2-5, then 225 menopur from day 6. So if i ask my clinic about using letrozole, would this be in addition to the bemfola and what dose/days would I take it? Also can i ask what dose ubiquinol you all take? I usually take 300mg.

Also just to say thank you ladies for your continued support and advice, no one in real life has a clue about any of this so being able to speak to you all on here keeps me sane xx
 

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Sunshine I take 600 mg Ubiquinol (3X200/day). I also take myo-inositol, aspirin, folic acid, selenium (thyroid issues), vit D, Omega 3 and melatonin.
Mild protocol may be done with either Clomid/Femara/Letrozole+ FSH (recombinat or urinal)/HMG (Menopur, Merional, etc) or simply with FSH (urinal or recombinant) + HMG.

I will start estrogen priming on day 21, or perhaps 19, not sure yet, for 7 days (dr. said I should start priming on day 21, but if AF arrives on days 24, I would go for day 19). After 7 days of estrogen priming, I will start stimulation with 375 Gonal F, then from day 6 I will use 150 Gonal +225 Menopur. I wanted to use Pergoveris instead of Menopur (Pergoveris is recombinant FSH/LH at a 2:1 ratio), but the dr. told me that they don't use it in the Czech Republic. It is a newer drug, and it seems to benefit poor responders/older patients, as it has 150 FSH/75LH, unlike Menopur, an urinal with 75 FSH/75 LH activity.
 

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Thank you all ladies. ^hugme^

Sunshine fingers crossed for you.
Katkat - ah yes Ali pharmacy. Heard of them before. Thank you.
Briss- thank you. Any recommended endocrinologist would be welcome. Hope it all goes well for you.

AFM- ordered Zita West vits via Amazon and noticed they were a strange colour [more than normal].
It is getting all too expensive so thinking of switching to a general pregnacare preconception.
Otherwise in limbo.

Blue x
 

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Hey blue I also order zita west vitafem from amazon and will get them tomorrow. What I noticed after they were already dispatched is that the ingredients on the back were slightly different  to those I ordered before, like folic acid rather than folate which i need. Are yours the same? Also the packaging looked a bit different

Sunshine next steps for me would possibly be another natural EC. And yes I think anything can happen, usually the most unexpected of things! Willing your embryos to grow!

Briss I don't think R. Would be able to get bloods right away but then again maybe they do. I would just email them and ask about it if that would be a possibility.

Thanks for replies about bhcg / frer, will have a think about it over the weekend. Bloods just don't lie so in a way I favour them
 

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Cloudy: thanks!

ross: that's a great result! Are they still developing in the lab? What is the next step?

Briss: yes, I had you in mind when I was looking for experts on Asherman's--I totally remember you saying you also suspected something had gone wrong in my miscarriage... Thank you! And thanks for the filmy thoughts and wishes, too! My ERPC was at CRGH but I don't blame them... Dr Trew said some women are just prone to scarring, and will scar even with very careful ERPCs, while others will escape unscathed from real hatchet jobs. Hmm, that's odd about your blood pressure... I have no idea, really, why it would go up... Do you undergo sedation when you have EC? If so, this is definitely something to bring up with the anaesthesiologist next time... I understand re. LH--I get that you seem really to have been surging... Your oestrogen, though, is not great, to be honest... 180 pg/mL is only equivalent to 661 pmol/L, which would be enough for one mature follicle but only just... And you had two... I seem to remember you saying your E2 was, like, 1800 at some point, no?! If so, this may be one of those "follicles fizzling" stories, where for some reason the follicles run out of steam before they're mature... I've had a couple of cycles like that and it's utterly heartbreaking... But maybe I'm misremembering your numbers... Still, the rule of thumb is, if your oestrogen ever goes down appreciably (and there's no cyst to explain that), that's a bad sign for the health of any of the eggs that are growing... I hope for a better cycle next time around, whenever that might be... I'm so sorry--it did look promising for a while...

Sunshine: do you have news on the two that were still growing? Unfortunately protocols that work for DOR women are really trial and error... Here's one I did that had Letrozole:
previous cycle: estrogen patches starting one week post-trigger.
meds:
CD2 onwards: Letrozole 5mg (= 2x2.5mg tablets, evening); partner starts taking doxycycline 2x/day
CD4 onwards: 150 iu Gonal-F, 75iu Menopur (evening)
CD?? onwards: add 250mcg cetrotide

and here's the protocol that I responded to best, personally:
previous cycle: estrogen patches one week post-trigger.
meds:
CD 3-7: 2x50mg Clomid (evening)
CD 3 onwards: 225iu Merional alternate days
CD10 onwards: indometacin 3x/day

I'm sorry this protocol doesn't seem to have worked so well for you, but the truth is, your baby may be among these embryos!

AnnaKay: this is one of the most exhausting things about this process--we can't really relax and put ourselves in our doctors' hands. I mean, many women can, and they're really lucky, but LTTTC women really cannot, in general. I don't think any clinic or doctor can hold the full complexity of our case in their minds. We have to do that, and we have to know what it means. It sucks, but... you did catch it. You deserve massive kudos for that!

katkat: my thinking on the 2ww is that, though it is torture, we've put in so much work obtaining each and every embryo that we owe it to ourselves and the embryo to give it every chance... I've read that implantation happens on average at 9 DPO, but can happen as late as 12 DPO. So, testing on 11dp3dt is just about ok, as long as it's a blood test... An FRER wouldn't pick up the tiny amount of hcg an embryo would produce if it had implanted just, like, 36 hours before (bearing in mind we should use the first urine of the day for an early FRER). From that perspective, the clinic's diktat of 14dp3dt is actually quite sensible, and not too cruelly long, if you're going to POAS (CRGH demands 16dpt!)... Good luck, whichever way you go!

LXP: what's on your horizon?!

Blue: I totally use Pregnacare conception. I supplement with 6 other things (uhm, let's see: turmeric, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Omega 3, Folic Acid). And I'm on Thyroxine. And back when I was still collecting eggs I was also on Ubiquinol. Can't wait til I don't need any of this stuff anymore!

AFM: looks like Dr Trew's secretary at Hammersmith Hospital has quit/been fired/something, so I haven't been able to schedule my operation yet... He only does them on Mondays and I was kinda hoping it would be this Monday but obviously it won't be... Pretty annoying when this whole important part of your life is hanging on something so chaotic, but I'm just trying to remind myself that, in practice, next Monday is part of the same cycle so I wouldn't be losing any cycles by waiting another week...
 

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Evening

I take vitamin B complex, cq10 and pregnacare. Should I be taking vitamin D and C as well?

Klik I hope you get hold of the secretary's replacement soon and booked in. Thank you for asking about me I had another scan on Friday and they did an external scan rather than internal and found an extra folicol so I now have 6! I know it's only 1 more but in this numbers game it made my day. All 6 are 11-12mm I am carrying on with 375 gonal F and have another scan on Monday. Looking for EC mid to end of next week......
 
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