[Briss]

Dorchestor,  you had the trigger plus egg collection so I'd fully expect normal natural progesterone support regardless of whether there was an egg.

LH 20 is pretty high they should have started cetrotide earlier . I think the general rule is to start cetrotide on LH above 10 or follicles above 13mm (I'm not 100% about the 13mm number though).

Re estrogen levels, it's personal and possibly for you 700-800 is enough but I think generally its expected to be closer to 1000 at trigger.  For me it needs to be at least 1500 for a good quality egg but I always had increased estrogen levels.

18mm Follicles with a 7mm lining combined with baseline level bloods (and by that I understand low LH low estrogen), could indicate a cyst.  But its hard to be certain . 7mm sounds low for trigger level lining but if its your normal level than it could have been a follicle.  Although with low estrogen levels the quality was probably not so good.

Afm, am back in Munich feels almost the same minus the mask. The flights were fine but outrageously expensive considering I just came out for scan/blood and meds. I'll still probably save a bit on German meds compared to UK prices (or generally lack of necessary meds). I would not be able to even start this cycle of i didn't stock up last year in Munich.

 

[dorchestor2016]

Hi the clinic said 600 is fine for e2 at trigger.

So my day 22 bloods from yesterday morning are as follows (which I got today)
E2  - 900
FSH - 7
LH - 4
Progesterone:16

The granulus and cumulus cells were removed is the progesterone therefore expected to be low?
Is this poor quality?
Or is this late testing?



The natural LH surge was last Wednesday evening
The progesterone was tested yesterday (Thursday) morning
Did I ovulate?

Yesterday the consultant said next time we would collect the next day after a natural LH surge if there is one.

Great to hear u r in Munich
I respect your perseverance and I know you know what you are doing!

 

[dorchestor2016]

My LH started off as 8 on day 5.
By day 10 with a 13mm follicle it was 21 that’s when cetrotide was then started.
It stayed at 20 and then rose to 24 on day 12 with a a 15mm follicle
I started to surge naturally regardless of cetrotide.
Next time when should we start cetrotide?
How can I keep LH low?
Thanks

 

[TBW342]

Hi everyone, hope I’m alright to join this thread. I’m very confused and wondered if any of you ladies could help.

I was due to start my last own egg cycle in July but unfortunately for the first time really my cycle seems really messed up. I had a peak reading on a digital ovulation test on day 19 which is about normal for me so was just waiting on AF arrive. My cycles are between 29 -36 days. I had a scan at my clinic to see if I would be okay to start with the next cycle and I had five follicles so they were happy for me to begin when AF arrived. One follicle was 15 and they said no signs of ovulation which I guessed as I had no temperature rise or EWCM round peak reading time. So then I decided to keep testing and wondered if I could still ovulate with this follicle and on day 37 got another peak reading,  this time accompanied by EWCM so thought okay this is late ovulation. My temperatures have risen a bit too and  App has me as 4dpo. Anyway last night I had watery cm and took another ovulation test and it was peak again- a week after the last peak reading! So now totally confused and have no idea when AF will start. Could this follicle still be trying to ovulate after all this time or has one of the other follicles now grown and is the right size because the cycle is so long? I’m now on CD 45.

Any help would be much appreciated

 

[Briss]

TBW, have you tested for pregnancy? That's the first thing that comes to mind. Positive opk at the end of a cycle are indicative of bfp.

 

[ZC]

When I was pregnant last year I only had a opk to test. It was positive. And yes I was pregnant. So do a FRER.

 

[TBW342]

Thank you Briss and ZC for your replies. I have taken pregnancy tests but sadly BFN including FRER. I suppose it is down to hormone irregularities due to age so I guess I will just have to wait it out. This would have been my last attempt at OE (after 6 previous failures) and I had resigned myself to close the chapter on this (I know that sounds negative going into a cycle but just based on previous failures and the poor odds). Now it is just being dragged out and am feeling uncertain whether I should cycle at all and save further heartache- not to mention money. Maybe my body is giving me a hint to give up on OE 

Briss - best of luck on your cycle in Munich. Fingers crossed it goes well for you!

ZC - Sorry to read that your recent FET was unsuccessful. 

 

[dorchestor2016]

TBW :
Sorry to hear of the pain you are going through
Keep going and follow your gut

Briss thanks for you support recently it has really helped me
Should I go straight into a new cycle this week?
Or can I take a break For one cycle
I feel even  with stims my body needs a month off the clinic said back to back is also good results as body is in a momentum
However I feel I need to give myself a month off from the drugs
I don’t feel time is on my side

ZC sorry it was unsuccessful try and be strong

 

[dorchestor2016]

TBW
I had this happen once
I think it’s the body trying to ovulate the same follicle...
I was also confused

 

[Briss]

Dorchestor,  unfortunately I don't really know how to keep LH low. Its always been an issue for me. Over time I learnt to go alone with my natural LH surge and focused to pinpointing as close to its start as possible and triggered on that day usually some hours after it started . But I was able to collect the mature eggs in time in most cases although it was always stressful scheduling collection , flights etc at a moments notice. Long protocols with nasal spray was the only time I had stress free collection that incidently ended with 7 eggs (my absolute record) and a bfp /ms. Somehow this protocol kept my LH in check the entire time.

Why do you say your progesterone is low? Id think 16 is normal for LP.

Why would you collect the next day after a natural LH surge? if you use fertility monitor then collecting on your second peak day is an option. But again are you sure its when you ovulate naturally? Some ladies ovulate the next day after the second peak. I know I used to ovulate on my second peak in about 95% of natural cycles but it took a couple of years of constant monitoring to figure that out. If you are using opk rather than fertility monitor its less reliable although opk can give you positive earlier. I used to get peak the next morning after positive opk. With opk I prefer to triger on the day of positive but collect some 35 hours after trigger.


The thing that surprises me about your levels is that your estrogen 900 is higher after egg collection than on trigger day 600. Why is that? Are you taking any estrogen? If not I'd query this with your consultant.


TBW,  I was so hoping it might be one of those miracle natural bfp stories. We actually had quite a few of these here so I was encouraged. I am sorry you are feeling negative but its natural to defend oneself in the face of constant disappointment. In the past despite many (too many to count not enough fingers and toes ...) failures I always had internal strength and firm belief that was driving me forward. I don't know whats driving me now . Inability to stop? I did give it 6 months of not doing any ivf and completely focusing on other things but it never left my mind . As much as its hard physically and emotionally and obviously financially and even facing ridiculous fsh levels and non existing cycles I still hope that maybe it'll happen if we just try again.

Going back to your second peak, its actually possible to ovulate twice in one cycle as it gets closer to menopause. Last year I had egg collection on day 4 and then continued stimming for a second round. My follicles seem to be growing out of sync whenever they feel like it. I just had a 60 day cycle with good estrogen levels but no peak and low progesterone so I had to trigger in the end to start LP and a new cycle two weeks later. I used to know my cycle so well I was able to schedule egg collection and get mature egg with no meds  not even a trigger shot. These days I have no idea whats happening.

Afm, disappointing news just had egg collection but no egg. The follicle was small around 15mm although it was 12-13 on Friday and LH was 19. I didn't have natural LH surge but I don't seem to have it anymore.  Estrogen was over 800 on Friday so I'd expect to have an egg in there. It could have ovulated early of course or maybe it wasn't ready even though I was flashed 12 times!! The collection was excruciating,  it wasn't my usual doc and she could not get the needle in, tried 10 times I was in agony

 

[Briss]

As if this wasn't  enough I'm also bleeding terribly and my blood pressure is through the roof.

 

[dorchestor2016]

If your bleeding And have BP issues
I wouldn’t travel for another day
Please take care and stay calm
Sending big hugs

 

[dorchestor2016]

Long protocol with nasal spray worked for me previously
However with suprecur I had a early LH surge
Maybe I should try long protocol with nasal however I am scared the pill be over suppressive now
I can’t believe how painful my period is after today  after this cycle
Maybe the ovaries became overly sore after the flushing 

 

[Briss]

Dorchestor,  thank you. I'm very sad but not surprised.  I changed my flights and hotel so i could go back to London today. With no egg/hope I struggle lingering longer in Munich.

I don't have any sedation during egg collection so I feel everything but my doc is pretty good and gets the egg out with one puncture unlike what happened today. I started refusing sedation after an unfortunate egg collection in london when I ended up with massive internal bleeding but i didn't realise things were wrong cos I was sedated. Now I feel I need to be present and see for myself whats going on in the operating theatre.

I checked your link but tbh Mira seems similar to fertility monitor.  Once they start testing for progesterone it might be worth investing but at the moment its the same urine sticks for LH and estrogen. Its unlikely to be any more accurate than fertility monitor.

What's PRP.?

I know my estrogen levels rise in LP after bfp, otherwise they are lower then trigger level.

Although it could be that your follicles start growing in LP rather than from cd1. I have had cycles like this. On fact my previous egg collection was on day 4 cos my follicle was ready and estrogen was up.

I do think progesterone 16 is normal after lh surge/ trigger / ovulation/ egg collection. 

I was also worried about nasal oversuppresing . In fact brno clinic told me not to do this protocol but somehow it turned out to be one of my most successful protocols.  Having said that the munich doc told me its more to do with a particular cycle rather than protocol.  Some cycles are just better than others .

Anyway i stocked up 4K worth of meds in Munich,  how ridiculous! But somehow you can't buy these meds in london particularly with foreign prescription

 

[dorchestor2016]

I would want to go home but also must be safe
You need your immunity and strength to travel

The kit can help with LH levels
As mine rise early I will get a better idea quicker
It will also give actual numbers rather then just a peak

I am more worried about pill being over suppressive
Also I don’t think I would get more then 2 eggs max with long now
However it would keep the LH lower which would help the follicle environment

Think Tamaxifin can help with LH lower ...

Would you do back to back stimms
Is A 100 dose fsh ok dialy rather then 150?

Prp is stem cells for ovaries

I don’t think it’s LP growth
Unless the hormones shows ovulation however the follicle
stays and Tries to ovulate again...

As the day 22 prog rose to 16
LH stayed lower in LP
Only E2 is 900
FSH a is 7 probably suppressed by high e2 ...

 

[queenie123]

Dorchester
Sorry I missed your last cycle,  I agree with Briss, your natural LH is too high,  and you need to keep LH lower.
Were you taking letrazole, is there a reason your E2 was low?

Some clinics give a little progesterone to do this. 

However in your case I would do a natural supported cycle,  start Cetrotide when your LH goes about 10, and there will be a little bit of stims there to support.

Have your FSH checked on day 2-3, if your FSH is <15 continue, if it is higher than 25 wait a month. 

I have had successes with back to back cycles, and if you are using sims I agree it can be successful.
If you are doing it more naturally then I also see the point of having time off.  Some months I just get a feeling that my peri-menopausal symptoms are strong and it won’t be good,  those months I skip just on instinct now, i expect it correlates with baseline FSH though if you wanted a way to help you decide yourself.


Briss
So sorry to hear about your stabbing egg collection - and then them missing it.  And then the bleeding.  Sorry to hear about the bleeding are you OK?

Are you trying naturally?  - I thought you were going to do some with some support / low dose stims.

TBW
again shame it wasn’t a natural miracle, I always hope. 
I sometimes have 2 ovulations per month, and it normally means the first one was not great.

Just hang on in there - AF will arrive.


AFM
Drove to reprofit in June - completely natural cycle  - very disappointed, 1 lovely health follicle, with fantastic E2 (1400) , Linning 11mm - they collected too early (the day after a natural peak) and it was immature (M1), although they matured in the lab, it wasn’t ready and didn’t fertilise.  We have now had quite a few cycles at reprofit and ended up with nothing - I’m not sure my eggs like their lab, I think they need more gentle handling.

Had July off.

Went to Athens last week - natural supported cycle, 
Was extremely stressful getting there due to the passenger locator issues.

They Collected 1 top quality egg on d14, and fertilised normally after their patented sperm selection techniques, and produced a top top quality 8 cell, d3 embryo.  Linning 12mm - so I am now 3dp3dt  - very excited.

 

[Rocket75]

Keeping everything crossed for you Queenie! Xxx

 

[queenie123]

Thanks Rocket,

This waiting game is hard,  Now 7dp3dt and have painful boobs (but sometimes do anyway).  - struggling so hard not to do cheap test yet. 
Have ordered blood test to do from home for next week so I don't have to get the train into London.

 

[Briss]

Queenie, your last Serum cycle sounds so exciting!! I am keeping everything crossed. From all the cycles I've done I did notice that good looking embryos seem to have a better chance afterall.  I am sorry Reprofit missed your egg, very disappointing. I have to agree that on balance I had much less success at Reprofit and no idea why as so many around me achieved their dreams through this clinic. I am tempted to consider Serum again but that would require my DH to go on a sperm improvement regime which is very hard to even start this conversation. I am relying on frozen sperm that we have in munich/Brno. I am wishing you best of luck with this cycle I so hope this is it.

Dorcheter, it's interesting that Mira gives actual numbers but I'd still be wary cos it's urine based rather than blood so a lot depends on how diluted it is. Do you know anyone who uses this system?

as to stim doses I really do not know. I am ofter on 225 pergoveris or elonva which is just one injection on day 2. I could probably do a lower dose considering I only have one follicle anyway.

I used to do back to back natural and I did a couple of back to back stims. My latest BFP was the result of the second back to back stim cycle so maybe there is something in it.

I am not sure about stem cells for ovaries. I previously was not ready to consider this because I had normal cycle but now I am clearly approaching fertility decline so I may think about it.

afm, despite traumatic egg collection I am gearing up to try again once my doc returns from his annual leave. at this point I am really not sure what I am hoping for my FSH was over 50... and no proper cycle. Do I even have good eggs?

 

[dorchestor2016]

Queenie: good luck!
I have a good feeling for you this time 
Don’t do any tests until when you should
Fingers and toes crossed for u
I am sure the Macs sperm system will help - why don’t UK clinics do it? We really need this
It feels like the UK is always behind with these things

Thanks for all your recent help
I will write a letter - they shouldn’t have left me over the weekend after which my LH rose From 8-20 and didn’t come down
I have many reasons to push my case... which could have had a different outcome
However feel drained trying trying to fight this battle even though they have lakh of communication for knowing I ovulate early and still leaving me - as I want to carry on - but I have to get closure and feel they are wrong.

I am now thinking maybe I have LP follicles
Because bloods for day 22:
Prog 16
LH 4
Estrogen 900
Fsh 7

Maybe I’ll consider Fertility Plus Dr Gudi (Apple twig twins success) who does LP stims and Apple twig had many eggs collected with Isci they can also do embryo batching
I don’t think Create will do L phase

He also believes in helping low AMH ladies 
I heard LP eggs can be better quality as the circulating LH is lower due to progesterone levels being higher
They do this back to back in China - Shanghai protocol for poor responders!

Interesting to know prog can help LH
Do clinics offer this? Does Create?

Briss:
I don’t know anyone using it
But I could test a few LH levels and then check it against real bloods
Which fertility monitor is good?
hope you are feeling better now?
I feel I  have high fsh as my cycles are irregular now and also had a few months break during
Coronavirus which was a stressful time

If a Fsh on day 22 which was a level of 7 is it suppressed by E2 900
What’s  the ratio?

Briss do you only take one injection on day 2?
I feel the eggs can still be fine
It’s the hormonal environment
Which PRP can help!
They say 1/10 eggs after 40 are normal...
Do you believe this

My Cycles are also out now compared to 6 months ago
I would do prp to help quality or improve hormonal environment
However where is the best place?
It’s different in every clinic
Shall we try and locate a good European clinic who safely does this

I am day 10 now and have a mild LH line
Will try naturally
Didn’t check yesterday though
Maybe last months stims will help this natural cycle?

Hope all others are strong