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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HI,

I hope there`s someone out there in a similar situation because this is really doing my head in. I hope I`m posting this in the right place.

Before starting txs the initial tests we had were SA for my DH a couple of times (found out he has low count and motility), blood tests to check ovulation and blood tests for various other tests such as thyroid funtion, liver function and lots of other things with were all fine. Also had external scan at local hospital and was found to have PCO appearence on scan but no symptoms of PCOS.

After these were done our GP referred us to the local fertility clinic and when we had our first consultation the doctor that our best chance was with ICSI and she didn`t suggest any further tests, especially for me a HSG. I know that it is not possible to see the tubes with a scan. I have also had an appendix operation in the past.

Even though we have been having txs with them for 1.5yrs now and as you can see from my signature I have had a m/c and a BFN so far. From what I have founds out recently from reading this site is that blocked tubes with fluid in them can cause BFNs and m/c. Isn`t it necessary and important to check before starting txs that the tubes aren`t blocked and have no fluids in them??? Isn`t it a straightforward test? I`m getting the feeling that because I`m with an NHS hospital they are trying to save money and avoiding doing some tests.

Should I push for a HSG test? Has anyone been in a similar situation? I`m afraid of going through all these txs and something else coming up years later.

Any experiences and advice are very welcome.

Roses
 

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Hi Roses

I cant comment on your situation as its completely different to mine - I dont ovulate and I have lots of PCOS. However I have had an HSG, true its quite straight forward however its not the most pleasant thing in the world and if a doctor didnt think you needed one then there they probably dont want you have to go through it.....  it might be good to ask about it and why they havent put you in for one but there are plenty of people going through tx without having one. We didnt have any male factor issues so we had to identify what was up with me - and the HSG did that for us.

I was, and still am NHS and havent found them skimping on anything and my treatment by the docs/nurses etc... has been excellent, though I know this can vary greatly between areas.

Hope you get some answers and success  ^reiki^
Rach
x
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Rach,

Thanks for your reply. I just keep thinking that they should have had my tubes checked before starting all this just to make sure. I don`t know how they think I don`t need it when they can`t see them on the scans...

Congratulations on your pregnancies. I`m on metformin at the moment because they think that it might help implantation and reduce risk of m/c and also help produce better quality eggs. I was on it for my FET but it hadn`t worked, but on it again now...

Roses x
 

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I never had one either - our local hospital only did them on tuesdays or thursdays, they booked up ages in advance so if the day of your cycle didn't fall right, then you didn't have a chance of getting booked in!

I spent about 3 months trying to get in and failed, so my consultant said not to worry as he could see what he needed to on the scan..... i thought the point of the hsg was that they couldnt'?!  anyhow, as you will see, it didn't make a difference to me as i have my lovely little girl, now nearly 18 months old!
 

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icsi bypasses the tubes. if you need icsi, there would arguably be no point in having an HSG.

(not to be confused with hycosy which is a differnet procuedure)
 

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Well that was my argument too, although he said that if there is a hydrosalpynx, it can effectively 'flush out' an implanting embie and therefore cause miscarriage - so while it might not affect success of the treatment, it could cause a mc afterwards.

but then he said not to worry... ^idiot^

sorry, i'm not helping much am i!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
HI Sally and Anna,

Have spoken to the doctor today about having a HSG done and he said that if I had fluid in my tubes then they can detect that on the intravaginal scans and he doesn`t see it as necessary as the MF is so severe. We have severe count, motility and morphology.

I thought that HSG and Hycosy did the same thing, that they checked the tubes and the only difference was that with HSG xrays are taken of the dye and with Hycosy the doc watches the dyes path on ultrasound. Is that not right?

The only thing they can`t see on u/s is adhesions and blocked tubes, for any another reason apart from hydrosalpynx.

Sally, congratulations on the birth of your daughter!!

xxx
 

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Hi Roses

Glad you brought it up with the doctor and that they could explain why it wasnt needed for your situation - its not the nicest thing to have done (I didnt think so anyway). I dont know what the Hycosy is, but I know my HSG was done under a huge xray machine so you are right about that.

Hope that your next stage of TX is more rewarding.
Good luck
Rach
x
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Rach, thanks very much for your good luck wishes. I`ve been prescribed Metformin as well with regards to having PCO appearance on scan. I don`t think it has made much difference to my FET and last cancelled fresh cycle. I`m still taking it though. I`ve been taking 2x500mg daily, had taken 3x500mg before but had really painful diarrhoea :-[ so then it was reduced to two a day. How much were you on? I guess it can effect everyone differently.

Congratulations on your second pregnancy and hoping for the best for the rest of your pregnancy.

Rosesxx
 

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I have been on metf twice now, the first time was prescribed primarily as a weight loss aid as they said I was Insulin Resistant and needed to lose a couple of stone before I could proceed to further treatment. Its disgusting isnt it, we affectionately call the side effects Met-bum on the clomid thread....  I had constant nausea, cramps and poops, should have been on 4 x 500mg a day but the most I managed was 3! I managed to loose 2 stone, during that time I had the HSG and somehow got pg with my little girl - the doctor called its a "fluke" - how nice!

I then was put back on it again after having DD as they wanted me re-lose any weight I had put on to control my diabetes risk, this time however I couldnt manage more than 2 x 500 a day, maybe it was cos I had a baby to look after and couldnt stay near the toilet all day, this time they decided I needed clomid as well, and was one of the lucky ones it worked for!

It did nothing for me periods, I havent had a natural one for cracking on 3 years now, even the ones I got pg on were induced with tablets, but it def helped me to lose weight. PG seems to be rolling on quite well, im getting huge anyway! Never thought the clomid would work and was just giving it a go for peace of mind, so was already 7 weeks when I bothered to do a test, Got all my fingers and toes crossed too.

Have you got a plan/timeline worked out with the doc for the next stage of treatment?
R
x
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Rach,

The reason the doctor has given me metformin apparently is that it can help with the quality of eggs produced, help implantation, reduce chance of m/c. I don`t have insulin resistance or haven`t been told I need to lose weight. But, I have noticed that it does reduce appetite and I have lost a few kg, which I don`t mind one bit :) .

Well, we went to the clinic yesterday for a scan to see if things have settled after my over stimming and heard good as well as not so good things from the Dr. The scan went well and everything has gone back to normal and as of yesterday have started taking the pill. BUT, he said the fact that the same thing that happened twice can still happen. We won`t know anything for sure once I start stimming. I will be on SP for the first time and a lower dose of FSH (stimming drug) Puregon 100! Even with that dose I`m at risk :mad: .

Anyway, once I get AF next month I have to go in for a Day 2 scan and if everything is ok I will start stimming right away. If I over stimmulate again, they`ll have to use buserelin to calm things a bit and try and take me to EC with the suprefact instead of the Ovitrelle, as it is the Ovitrelle that can cause OHSS. If they end up having to take me to EC by using the suprefact then we won`t have a very good outcome with regards to egg quality and quantity. He said "don`t worry we`ll try and work something out". I sure don`t like the sound of less eggs with lower quality.

My DH had another SA last week there and we got a written result yesterday and unfortunately the vitamins he has been on the last 2 years have made no difference and he still has severely low count, motility and morphology. With regards to HSG the doctor said if I had fluid trapped in my tubes this would be detected on the scans, and he thinks it`s unnecessary. Once I heard that they can see fluid in tubes and DH`s SA, I changed my mind having to go through a HSG. I asked about natural IVF and he said we would even have a lower chance of success with that because of the MF. ICSI is our only hope, if that can even be achieved...

I`m not feeling too hopeful at the moment :(
I got so scared when I had that really painful diarrhoea. The pain started in my stomach and I couldn`t stand straight from the pain, and a few minutes later I was in the loo for half an hour!

I always imagine what it must be like to have a growing stomach and feel a baby move inside me. Female body clock`s doings I guess. Maybe it will be a reality one day.

Take care of yourself and the little ones,
Rosesxxx
 

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Hiya

It sounds like they gave you a lot of information to take in, and the medication you are taking must take their toll on you too. The rushing to the loo on Metf is very familiar....I didnt know it did all those other useful things too, i know they said that ovulation can be a happy side effect of taking it, but that never happened to me, dont remember what having a period is like. I read loads about the clomid but managed to frighten myself with the info I got so decided to stop - ignorance is sometimes bliss.

Its a bugger that the vits that DH has been taking havent helped, is there anything else to try - im guessing changing his style of underwear, no hot baths etc... is already being done. We were lucky not to have an MF, but even the thought if it terrified my DH - they are so precious about their bits!

Fingers crossed there is no over stimming this time  ^reiki^
R
xxxx
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
R,

Ignorance is definitely bliss sometimes. DH has been doing all those things you mentioned and also has cut down on alcohol and even so hasn`t had a drink in months, doesn`t smoke, we make sure we have a healthy balanced diet, he exercises whenever he can. I don`t think there can be much else done. He`s on zinc, selenium A,C,E, and folic acid on the advice of the embriologist. They did say that they will not solve the problem all together but may improve the quality of the ones he already has (in order to help ICSI and not really natural conception :( ). Well, some people just can`t have it all in life can they?

I did ask the doctor yesterday that maybe because I was on Metformin this time (and wasn`t with the first fresh cycle) that I over stimmed even on the same dosages used last time and he said "No it would have the opposite effect" ??? . Does that mean he meant that it doesn`t help to produce eggs, sounds weird right?

Rosesxx
 

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It does sound very confusing - I dont know anything about the metf not producing eggs, it should help with ovulation (well, thats my understanding anyway). Can you get a consultation with the doc/nurse and get them to explain all the medication and how you could minimise stimulation issue.

Though I dont remember being warned about any over stim information when taking just the metf, it was only something that came up with the Clomid, so maybe it encourages a more natural, single egg ovulation cycle? Clomid can def be a multiple thing as we are warned of an increased risk of multiple births.

Poor DH, no booze and lots of pills....  and still no result - it must be very frustrating for him. But at least he does have some little chaps, so you shouldnt need donor should you?



 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Rach,

As an initial investigation I did have blood tests to see if I`m ovulating even though I have PCO and it was found that I was ovulating and the clinic knew this. I`ve got a strong feeling that because that I was on metformin that even on the same dose of drugs used last time that I over stimmed. When the doctor told us that I had over stimmed and that there`s a high risk that I can get severe hyperstimulation and be hospitalised as a result, the first thing that we asked him was "but we used the same drugs and same dosages?", he said that "the body does not work like a machine and can react to drugs differently each time".

This tx we had/are going to have is the one single free NHS go we have, and me and DH think that if this time doesn`t work either then that`ll be the end of our tx there as we want to move on to have tx at a private clinic. I`m going to be on a lower dose this time and so we`ll see how I go.

You are right that it is good that DH does some some sperm, more than enough to do ICSI, as they only need one sperm to one egg, and we are so greatful it does exist! Otherwise, if you don`t have sperm in the ejaculate then it has to be retrieved through surgical sperm retrieval, that can work too, and after a few times if it doesn`t is that`s when people need to use donor sperm from what I`ve read.

DH was upset to see his recent SA written in detail on paper the other day. He said "I didn`t know it was so sh**" and I say "we should be grateful that you have more then enough for ICSI otherwise you would have needed to go through surgery" and he said "true". I also said "think also that we don`t have to worry at all about the use of contraception for a life time" and he smiled at that thought ;)

I must THANK YOU for your support last few days Rach. It has been really great to share all this with someone else and here`s that ^hugme^ ^hugme^ you rightly deserve.

Rosesxxxx
 

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Its not problem, its nice to have been of some use - considering how little we have in common about our treatment....  it just goes to show that knowing nothing can actually be useful sometimes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D !!!

It must be disheartening for DH, but he is so much better a position than a lot of others, if you look at the Male Factors section there are lots of fellas there with no sample at all, and hopefully he doesnt need the surgical extraction thingy!  Will keep everything crossed that the NHS cycle works so you dont have to spend the pennies, do you have a clinic already lined up? There are lots in London arent there?

My tests say I dont ovulate, combination of the PCOS and weight initially, but it still didnt kick in when I lost lots, so they arent sure why - but we have had the same conversation about contraception ;) ;)!!!

Make sure you keep me updated with how you are getting on, would love to know that you have a well deserved positive outcome soon ^reiki^ ^reiki^ ^reiki^ ^reiki^, will keep an eye on this thread but you can PM me anytime...

Rach
x

 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks Rach!

True that there are quite a few clinics to choose from in London. Some are more expensive then others. We do have a few in mind but one of them has opened a new clinic near to us and is tempting to be close to a clinic. So, that is our top choice at the moment and we`ll be going to their open evening end of May. The others are further away mostly in central London (we live on the outskirts) and I don`t like the sound of being in all the hustle and bustle, but I would if I had too.

Well done on losing so much weight. That is definitely an achievement :) as the rest is out of our control.

I will be happy to let you know how we get on, I have added you to my buddy list. But, make sure you keep me posted with your pregnancy too.

Rosesxxx
 

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Oooo how good that you have a clinic opening near you, from what I read here on other threads travelling to clinics can be a real pain, especially if you have to have time off work etc....

I am so lucky with my hospital as its less than a mile away and I can see if from my house - when maternity services were being reassessed round the country we thought the dept might close but I was delighted when it was rated as really good so we got to keep it. My gran lives just across the road from it too so I park there and wander over so no probs with parking, when I had DD I was in for 4 days so all my friends/relatives kept arriving at my grans house!

Its May today so the open day must be coming up soon, hope you get lots of info about everything, and start writing a list of questions maybe so that you dont come away wishing you had asked things!

I am doing fine thanks, I have a very active bump which is also extremely low down so I want to pee even when I have just come out of the bathroom! Due to the PCOS I have to have a GTT (glucose tolerance test) test in a couple of weeks to check for diabetes etc... but thats the only issue we have come up against. I also know we are having another girl which will save me a fortune on clothes - I have spent the past couple of weeks sorting through stuff so the house looks like a jumble sale!

Hope the new clinic has some good offers to attract new customers  - maybe they will be cheaper than some in central London?
Rach
x
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Rach,

Another girl!! That`s great, I have one brother and have always wanted a sister. It will be great to have 2 little girls I`m sure. It`s always handy of course to save money on the clothing :)

I`m glad your pregnancy is going well and that you can see your hospital from your house ;D . It`s true that travelling time to the clinics can be stressful especially if you`re trying to make it to a clinic and you are stuck in traffic or that you are stuck on a bus/tube :mad: . Luckily I haven`t been in a situation like that so far with the current clinic and haven`t been late to any appointments as I go by train and tube.

But the private clinic close to us is much closer, you don`t have to pay for the congestion charge if going by car, they have own parking and there`s less traffic. We will definitely have to make a list as you say, as hate forgetting to ask questions :mad: . Their prices are average for a private clinic I would say. Let`s hope we won`t need to spend the pennies. I`ve been told today by the nurse that my last day on the pill will be on the 23rd and should get AF 3 days later and have a scan on Day 1 or 2 and if everything ok I`ll be starting stimming. Getting a bit nervous already...

Have a lovely and hopefully ^sunny^ Bank Holiday!

xxxx
 

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Hiya Roses

Hope you have a lovely bank holiday too - mine started nice and early when DD decided she was awake.... not unusual but it bugs me that DH can sleep through it. Yeh Yeh I know, he works hard and leaves early every work day blah blah but how come the only noise he doesnt hear is me stomping around deliberately trying to wake him up?  humph.

Everything seems to be moving on nicely at the moment, only another 3 weeks and you should be all systems go - so will keep fingers crossed that nothing gets a bit overstimmed.  Dont get nervous - get super excited!!!!!!!

R
x


 
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