Fertility Friends Support Forum banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there

If anyone can point me in the right direction i would be very grateful as DH and i are losing hope.
I have just had yet another failed ICSI cycle, this was our 5th go.

We were told at the start of our IVF journey that we had 'unexplained infertility', DH's sperm count etc was reportedly normal and i was 'fine'  following a further 2 failed cycles, poor response to stimuation drugs and DHs 'low count' i seeked further advice and found i had lots of immune issues. DH was referred to an Andrologist at the liverpool womens hospital and was told he had a varicelle but 'that wouldnt affect his count', he was referred to the endocrinologist who did bloods and the bloods came back ok we are still waiting for a FU appointment  a couple of years on as our last 2 appointment were cancelled.

I sought a second opinion at the FGA in london after our 4th cycle as i was told my eggs were poor and i needed DE. (i only got 8 eggs and only 1 fertilised)following 4 months of immune treatment we went abroad with full immune therapy and i had my best response. I got 11 eggs 6 were mature annd 4 fertilised. We had 2 grade 2 blastocytes put back and we were over the moon.Unfortunately the other embryos were unsiuitable for freezing. The doctors words to me were 'you have very nice embryos, it is possible to get pg'

DH despite taking multiple vitamins including, laguinine,lcartine,selenium,zinc,folic acid,omega3,6,9,vit A,B,C,D,E,manganese all the vits listed in the zita west book his sperm quality has declined.

What shocked me was DHs SA. In Feb 2010 his count was 12million,(it had improved from 8 million a few months after)volume 4.6ml,motility 60% and progression 2%, following this cycle feb 2011 his count was 0.5 million, no movement and 1 % morphology. We had some sperm frozen a few days later and the report syas 'sperm suitable for ICSI, total motility 59% progressive motility 9% normal morphology 8%

My questions are
Could there be a DNA fragmentation problem affecting implantation?? if so would this not cause the embryos to stop developing before day 5 cultivation?
Could the varocelle be causing this deterioration?
What other tests/treatments are available?

i am grateful for anyones advice, we cant afford to keep trying so our next go will be our last

Thanks

Helen x
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Anyone??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
482 Posts
hi,

I would def seek help on the varicelle because i personaly know of two ladies who's husbands have had this trouble.  Once they had the op to remove them they fell pregnant straight away so i would honestly look into it.  The varicelle is believed to basicaly fry the sperm so i am sure it will not be helping his little swimmers.

I have often wondered if my hubby has this issue but our clinic have never even examined him.  can i ask how they discovered that your husband had one??

Vey best of luck to you,

Lyns xxxxx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for your reply Lyns
DH was referred to an andrologist after our 2nd failed cycle only because i pushed for it!! the andrologist said he had a thickened spermatic chord and would need an ultrasound scan, then he was told he had a varoclle but that wasnt affecting his count and that was it!!

Dont know who to see re this as i felt we were fobbed off and we are wanting to try again in 3 months time anny longer than that and we have to fork out another £2 k on immmune treatment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,650 Posts
Did your DH have a chromosomal analysis done?  Count sounds like it's consistently less than 5 million per ml which is (according to Andrology Solutions) a reasonable cut-off point, below which warrants testing.  Also Y deletion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,650 Posts
Uro/andrologists disagree on varicoceles affecting fertility.  What a surprise, most UK specialists tend to think it doesn't.  The US ones say it does.  Perhaps worth having this looked at again, can recommend Mr Ramsay in London.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks Claudine, DH has had karotype test done which was fine, is that what you mean?
ive been doing a lot of reading up on varocelle and it appears that repairing varcelle doesnt always affect sperm quality so prob no point in having that done. Any other tests that anyone can recommend would be welcomed.
We are going to see Dr Gorgy in london our immune doctor so will ask his advice and plan from 1st March to start antioxidants and try to eat as much organic as poss as hopefull want to try another cycle of ICSI in 3 months time x
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,211 Posts
HMF:  Sorry to read your story so far; it sometimes sucks this whole ttc journey, doesn't it?  My DH also has a varicocele but we too have been advised that there's no point operating as it 'shouldn't' affect too much.  DH also has had variable counts (min. 10 - not 10m, just 10 - to 17m max but that was a bit of a one-off; he generally gets around 6m).  I have to say though, this does vary a lot, and I think like us ladies with our hormone levels; the SA does vary.  Re the DNA fragmentation, I have been told by various consultants that ICSI 'fixes' this issue.  We are not sure whether we have a problem with my eggs, or if it's DH's sperm.  We are always grade 1 up until day 3, and then things seem to go downhill.  Day 3 is when the sperm information meets the egg info but that doesn't tell us definitely if there's anything wrong with egg or sperm.  Has your DH had karyotype of his blood AND sperm done?  Dr Gorgy does do this if you want it done, to be sure.  A FF's DH had different results for blood and sperm, and is currently seeing a specialist about a Y chromosome elongation issue.  It also may help to have food allergy tests done; we had ours done at the start of the year and I have found I've got a gluten intolerance, which can massively affect immune issues (which currently seem to be the bane of my life!).  We are now going to go for a consultation at ARGC, and want to go for the intense regime they put you on, to try and get the max from my eggs.  We're hoping this will finally do it... it's getting very expensive, and I'm losing my patience!!  Sorry, I seem to have rambled; hopefully some of this has helped in some way. 
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Jo thats so helpful thank you. No DH hasnt had karotype of his sperm done as far as i know so will push for that, if there is a chromosonal problem do you know what the treatment is?
It sounds like there is not much you can do for high DNA fragmentation. Dr Gorgy will hopefully be able to help us as youre right, this is all getting too expensive, we want to try again in 3 months before my LIT runs out, otherwise its another £2000.
At day 3 cultivation one of my embryos was a grade 1!! by day 5 it was a grade 2 blast, not sure if thats significant or not.
I am willing to try DE for our next cycle as i know my embryos arnt fantastic just need to make sure DHs sperm is ok to use.
Re food intolerance i would need to look into that as some foods dont agree with me but i am hoping that my TNF and NK activity has reduced since i cleared the hidden C!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,211 Posts
HMF:  Ah, if you've had blasts, I suspect Dr G (or Dr Gargoyle as I like to call him  ;D ) will advise against sperm karyotype.  That's what he said to us.  We took a decision not to get it done.  Up to you though; definitely worth the conversation.  If there is an issue, the answer is PGD or CGH (to de-select any chromosomal abnormalities) which, of course, is more £££. 

Re DNA fragmentation, it's just the high doses of vits C and E as I'm sure you already know.  Plus the ICSI which takes the problem out of the equation.  I've been told it affects normal IVF in that the sperm's head will literally explode trying to get into the egg (which is soooo not a good look ;)), but injecting the sperm takes this issue away. 

As for food stuffs, my gluten intolerance apparently affects TNF-a, when I told Dr G (after my first TH1:TH2 re-test, when my levels went up after humira), he said to cut it out immediately.  So I've had none since 7 Jan.  I re-test next Friday again  ^pray^  Pleased to hear your TNF-a and NK activity has reduced since clearing the hidden C (I tested negative for that). 

I see you've used Reprofit; how to their success rates compare to a UK clinic? 

Like you, I've scoured everything to try and pin our apparent 'bad luck' on something.  I'm hoping the immune stuff will help us, although unfortunately there are no guarantees.  For me, I've stopped looking at the possibility of sperm being an issue, as, at the end of the day, although DH only gets a few million, that's MORE than enough.  H£ll, we only need enough sperm to fertilise the eggs we do get!  And if DH's sperm were an issue, DS is not an option for us (DH doesn't want it, and I respect that).  Chances are, for us, it may be more an issue of egg quality.  So, our plan is two more goes with OE, and if still not pg, we'll go down the DE route, in Spain. 

All the best.

Jo
x
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank you Jo you have really helped me ^hugme^ ^hugme^ ^hugme^ i am beginning to believe i have an egg quality issue so am thinking about DE, i am 38 i have never had frosties and fertilisation rate isnt the best. I need to have my TNF retested as it may well have gone up, im hoping it hasnt since hidden C was treated. I dont think i will bother pushing for further sperm tests and will ask Dr G when i see him next. DH has been taking vit c and e amongst other supplements for years and his parameters have deteriorated rather than improved. So we  are changing his supplements to include antioxidants and going organic where we can. Fingers crossed this approach increases our chances. Best of luck ^reiki^ ^reiki^ and thanks again.

Helen x
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re Reprofit, i dont have their stats to hand but i know they do have good success rates. They specialise more in DE than OE.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top