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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

Today DW and I had a Nuchal scan (week 13).

The result was 70mm baby and 3.7mm Nuchal. This gave us a:
age risk of downs of 1:574
calculated risk from scan 1:31

As you may understand my DW was a bit upset, however we don't want to do the tests as we have been through too much to risk even a 1% chance of m/c.
I have seen on the web articles of women with 6.8mm and also the nurse at the time said things like infections can affect the nuchal thickness.  Can someone either give some advice or point me to a good reference??!?

Regards
Andy
 

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Hi Andy

I will try and find out some more info for you on this so bear with me. I am interested in this as I have just recently had one of these as well.

jeanette x
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ok reading up useful info:
1) The scan has to be done before week 14 as the lymph glands form around then and drain the fluid.
2) In week 11 the MEAN is about 1.2mm in week 13 the MEAN is about 1.9mm
3) The level for high risk is deemed below 1 in 300
4) About 95% measured are below 3mm
5) Age plays a significant factor
<20yrs 1/1554, 35yrs 1/374, 45yrs 1/25
6) If the baby is neck straight (extended) this can lead to a under-read of 0.8mm if curled up the over-read can be 0.4mm in excess.
7) on the day of the scan or before they can do a PAPP-A or first-beta hcG blood test. After that the other things get more invasive.
8) 80% of d/s babies have no bone in thier nose.
9) The Scan is about 75% accurate with bloods 85% and with intrusive 95%.

Our bubba was curled so we could be low 3mm's but this is still high also has a good strong nose like his dad.   ::)
Jeanette as a nursing professional do you think a bit premature to go into details and yes I mean details of "the process" of aborting the baby, without knowing if it's positive...  let's just say our nurse didn't and then had to watch my DW use a whole pack of tissues...  :'(

Thanks in advance for anymore advice.   ^eyes^
Regards
Andy
 

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Andy
I can't give you any advice regarding measurements but would like to tell you that when i was pregnant with dd, i was told that there was a high risk of downs syndrome based on nuchal fold measurement. The consultant asked whether i wanted amnio and talked about termination. I refused amnio but had blood test which was inconcusive. My dd was born without Downs Syndrome. but became disabled thru illness at 3 wks old. The whole thing was very stressful, but at the end of it all I had my dd. I wish you and dw the best of luck for the future.
Casey
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If you want really silly I've read that the number of CVS tests could be reduced from 30,000 to 10,000 by checking for a nose bone !!  :p

Also 30% of d/s babies do not make it to full-term due to spontanous m/c (scary).  ???

Finally 400 healthy babies are m/c'd each year due to the mother taking the invasive d/s tests.... thats a crying shame  :'(
If you were told that 400 people were killed each year by an indication test people might think it not necessary!!

Anyway thanks for your support!!
Regards
Andy
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
DW & I have decided to just run the course and get the baby, we have a friend who did IUI and they gave a definate 'NO' as it would only stress her (& the baby).  I see a lot of mail that some results take 5 weeks and can still come back inconclusive...

Regards
Andy "the stress bunny"
 

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Andy

Sorry to see you going through so much stress at the moment I am sure you and DW could do without it.  Even at the calculated risk you are in a position where it is about an approx 3% chance of DS baby so 97% chance of things being 100% OK.

On an aside as a non medic - personally I think it a bit early to go through the detail of a termination with you as the risk is high but as you say the nuchal fold is only an indicator and not a diagnostic test.  Especially given your medical history.  I would have thought the time to disucss that would be if you had had a conclusive result and had decided that all factors considered you would not wish to proceed. 

Take care

Clare 

 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Good news all after 8 weeks of stressing due to a 3.7mm Nuchal we got very good scan results today! 10 fingers, 10 toes and everything the right size.

Admittidly we still have to wait till full term for final result but at least some of the stress has gone.

We now have a 1:62 risk of downs I will post more later but I must dash.

Regards
Andy
 

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Hiya Andy

Good to see an update from yourself and DW

Am pleased that things went well today

I hope that u can now enjoy the remainder of ur dw's pg

Best wishes
Emilyxx
 

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Hi 

Not sure if the thread is still active or not, will also IM Andy for advice.  Had 12 week antenatal booking in clinic on friday and was told things seem ok.  We were advised there was no point in having blood screening tests a) because of ivf and b) we had a twin pregnancy until 3 weeks ago so this would further confound the issue. 

Today was the day of your nuchal fold scan.  I felt like it was going on for ever, he was taking loads of measurements and I started getting twitchy at the numbers on the screen.  The consultant saw us afterwards, I'm 37 years old, essentially we have a CRL of 55mm with a nuchal fold of 4.2.  We were told this represents a very high risk,  a one in three risk of downs and a high risk of Edwards syndrome.  I had said before I didn't want an amnio but we were advised today we have very high possibilities of chromosomal problems that wouldn't even make it to birth so to strongly reconsider our decision re the amnio. 

Obviously it's very soon after getting the news, I'm torn between tears, feeling numb and overwhelmed with burden of responsibility. 

I would be very greatful for any advice please

Lolly XXX
 

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Ι copy-pasted the same I wrote to Vick..

I am sorry to hear your exams cause we have the same problem.
I had nuchal exam when I was 12w3d pg and the measurement was 8.6..
the next day we had CVS exam (they take cells from the placenta) and they examine it for chromosomical syndromes.
Here in Greece they say u the quick result (positive /negative) and afterwards u have to wait 15-18 days for the culture!
Our quick result was negative (normal Karyotype 46xx) so our little girl dont have any Down or Turner syndrome.
We still wait the culture ^reiki^ ^reiki^ ^reiki^
dont give up hope..

http://www.fetalmedicine.com/f-downs.htm

This is a URL for the Fetal Medicine Foundation in London. On the left side of the resulting page, just under "Introduction", please click on "11-13 6 Weeks Scan book (multiple languages)". Then you will be able to click on the language of your choice. The book will take a little time to download, and you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader 7.1.

the majority of pregnancies that are found to have abnormal nuchal translucency do turn out to be perfectly normal. You can find further information at www.genecare.com .

I hope this helps. Dr. Kypros Nicholaides, who wrote the book cited above, and who is clearly the "father" of nuchal translucency ( he is Greek) can be reached at fmf[@ Spam protection]fetalmedicine.com .

When I heard the doctor telling us about the baby I was crying for days..
but we have to be strong! I will be thinking of u and your baby..
If you want u can email me..
Love
Stella and little bubba
 

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I want to add that in our case the nosal bone was visible from the beginning and everything else was normal in our baby.
they said to us cause the karyotype is normal we have to do (when I will be 16 week pg) a scan to see the baby's heart..
Best of luck to u 2! ^reiki^ ^reiki^ ^reiki^

Stella and bubba
 

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Thanks so much for this Stella.  will post more once I have my head around things a little clearer!

Congratulations on the first half of your results, will keep my fingers crossed for you on the rest. 

Big hugs

Lolly X

Lolly X
 

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Hi lollypop67,

We just got the culture results and the baby is completely normal!
She haw no chromosomical problems!!!
Next week we have todo another scan to examine her heart but until now everyone was sure for turner syndrome and its not!
So u must have FAITH!!! ^reiki^ ^reiki^ ^reiki^ ^reiki^

Stella
 

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That's fantastic news Stella, really pleased for you.  Must be an enourmous weight of your shoulders.  May I ask how you found the procedure?  Also why do you have to have the heart examination if all the tests are normal?

Hope some of your recent turn in luck rubs off on us.  I think we have both been through enough with IF let alone loosing a twin (we'd seen the heartbeat twice) and now this lot! 

Hugs

Lolly X
 

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Hi lollypop67

when I had the nuchal scan the doctor said to do CVS the next day and we did it.
I had my nuchal exam when I was 12w3d pg.

U have to download the book I told u to read about nuchal exam.
Its an indication not only for chromosomical abnormalities but also for severe heart problems.
So  next week I have to go for this scan to examine the bubba's heart.If its normal then the possibilities for a healthy baby are more than 95%. ^reiki^ ^reiki^ ^reiki^ ^reiki^ ^reiki^

Love
Stella
 

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hi lollipop 67 i do know how you are feeling i was pregnant in 2003 went for a nuchal scan at 13 weeks and was told very severe edwards ... i am surprised they couldn't tell you there and then. our baby had organs outside only option was a termination, which we did, but, i wish i had let nature take its course instead... can you have further scans, i'm sure if it was edwards they would be able to tell straight away. my age was not a good factor i was 40  still trying though  i'm thinking of you  :( xx
 

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Hi ck6,

how much was your nuchal scan?? did u do CVS or amnio test??
I amreally sorry about your loss..
I am thinking all the time bad things about our baby and I can understand u..
the only good thing is the negative CVS..
the doctor was sure for Turner syndrome and he was wrong finally..
u have to keep trying..

Love
Stella
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Sorry I've been away for a while, busy with things I will explain on other threads.

Lolly maybe a chat will help but I have found friends with kids who had "bad" nuchals and the problem is the word "bad".  As I may have stated before it's all statistics.  I wish like stella we could have had the blood works done on the day but it wasn't offered and not doing it for the reason of IVF is bullsh!t.

I'd like to chat and try and help but the issue will be that until the 20 week scan, you're going to be an unhappy bunny.  And even after that the doctors are going to use the "we can't guarantee... blah blah blah".

Stay postive  ^reiki^  ^reiki^  ^reiki^
Andy

 

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Ηi  Andy_N_Yil

I have read your story and I think that u can understand our stress even now with a negative CVS..
the good thing is that the doctors were sure for turner's syndrome in the beginning and finally they were wrong!
We were thinking to stop the pg and not to do CVS very expensive test because the gave us that time 1/16 possibilities for a baby with no chromosomical abnormalities!
But finally as u said its only statistics..
we have to do another scan next week to examine the baby's heart..why u had to wait untill 20th week for examinations???

Stella

 
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