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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all
I am currently in the middle of my second round of ICSI PGD. I had my scan yesterday and they only detected 5 follicles all of which were tiny (didn't get sizes but well below the line). Basically the doctor I saw said they would not be able to do anything with the follies the size they are and that they suspect I have a low ovarian reserve and suggested it is likely this cycle will be cancelled.

I was sent home and told to keep doing my injections and to go back on Friday in the hope that they might have grown. Either way they wouldn’t do PGD and so if we decided to go ahead it would be straight ICSI IVF obviously therefore incorporating the risk of us passing on DH's genetic condition which would result in a disabled child. Our odds of a succesful pregnancy from this cycle have already been slashed to under 10% so it’s a real quandary whether to proceed even if things have improved. If we cancel the cycle we pay £1000 for the drugs and treatment this far but retain our funding for a future round (they’ve said this wouldn’t be PGD but might be donor ICSI IVF) but if we go to egg collection with what we’ve got then that is considered a full cycle and there won’t be any further funding after that.

This time round I was on 300 of puregon. The doctor said considing my age and this high dose she would have expected to see 20-25 follicles. I guess my questions are:

Should I go for it anyway my fear being if I have a slow reserve I don't want to use up the eggs I have?
From the research I've done a low ovarian reserve usually means a high FSH and mine is 3.7 so this doesn't add up?
Could the number of follies be anything to do with the fact I had a hideous stinking cold for the past two weeks?
I had accupuncture this morning and am drinking milk and using hot water bottle but is there any other advice?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Laura Goose x

xxxx
 

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sorry for all this  ^hugme^  ^hugme^

do you mind my asking? how old are you? i think it's relevant to the decision.
is it your FSh that was 3.7 or LH? i suggest you check as 3.7 is an extremely low FSh adn not commensurate with poor response really. Have you had AMh done? (3.7 would be a very typical day 1/3 LH number though.) also, what was E2 (estrogen) on same days? it can suppress FSh if it's too high. 
 

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Hi Laura,

I'm sorry to here that!

I have a high Fsh level but we still decided to go down the standard ivf route and give it ago. I was put on the maximum dose of drugs i could possibly have. When we went to our first scan to check the follicles there was only three all of which were on the small side one slightly larger then the other two but still smaller then they would of hoped. They did a bloodtest to detect a certain hormone (im sorry i can't be more specific but at the time it was alll abit of a blur with all the talk of cancelling it) which suggests weather or not there may be an egg present in one of the follicles! That maybe able to help you make a decision either way! Anyway when we went back a few days later there was only one that got to just below the satisfactory size. We made the decision to go to egg collection anyway it was either that or always wonder what if? They collected the egg it fertilzed and was a four cell (apparently good quality). All be it the cycle failed but it just goes to show that it can't all be down to the size. You just never know it only takes one egg and you here of all the success stories of people who do get the perfect end results from a poor quality egg!

Good luck with your decission making!

Tina
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks Tina and Anna
I am 31, I have taken the 3.7 from an old blood form so I may be reading it wrong. I have two here but on both it says that my FSH is 3.7 and my LH is 1.7 on both. I haven't had AMH done? Sorry to be completely niave but what do you mean when you say 3.7 would be a very typical day 1/3 LH number though? Estrogen E2 doesn't appear on the forms I have. If you have any advice on any questions I should ask then please let me know. I am desperately trying to learn as I go but don't want to be rushed into a decision based on consultants 'assumptions'.
Thanks again
Laura Goose
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This is the strange thing, first time round I had 17 follies and got 7 eggs (they discarded some that weren't absolutely 100% because PGD is so invasive they could only use the strongest). From this we got 6 embryos, only 3 grew strong enough and big enough to go through testing and all were abnormal.
Thanks again for all your help x
 

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Laura,
Not been in the exact situation as you but similar so can understand how you must feel and wnated to send . ^hugme^. In my case I did a LP and little response, staright onto SP and had one follicle only. Went ahead with EC and an egg was retrieved which fertilised and one embie was put back today. Don't lose all hope yet and best of luck with whatever you decide,
                                                                                Ally
 

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Sorry I cant you any major advice on what to do hon but, as a poor responder myself I just wanted to say there is hope.  I was nearly 38 when I got this latest BFP that resulted in K.  I had basically one decent follie all the way through and then one caught up a bit and another snuck in at the end.  I ended up with 2 embies and one of them is now chatting (if you can call it that) away on my lap.

My first cycle I only got one embie and it didnt do anything beyond fertilising....

Wishing you all the best.

All the best to you also Ally it only takes one
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks everyone, its is so unimaginably reassuring to know there's others out there. All these big decisions we have to make but as you say, it only takes one.

Ally am sending you lots of  ^pray^ and  ^reiki^, its a huge step to have got to ET, well done and hoping all your dreams come true
Tina - will definitely ask about the blood test you mentioned as that would certainly help make a decision
Anna - thanks again I will check my messages soon

xxxx
 

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Not exactly the same situation - didn't need ICSI but I also had a poor response to IVF and nearly had treatment cancelled so I know what you're going through - it feels like your only chance is being ripped away and I know that no matter what people say it doesn't make you feel any better.

Last year I was on the long protocol and ended on maximum dosage of puregon almost from day 1.  Scans showed that I only had one follicle in the right size and two smaller ones so we were warned that collection may not happen but they kept me on the drugs for a few more days to see how it went.  Two days later, we had three at the right size with one smaller so they went ahead with egg collection and we ended up with 3 eggs and then 3 embryos.  Two were put back and I got pregnant but miscarried at 8-9 weeks.

We were told that once you start with the drugs (even if you don't get to egg collection) that is classed as one attempt on the NHS so you might want to check that with your PCT - this may count one of your NHS "go's so if that is the case and you have the choice (we weren't given a choice - the hospital were making the decision on that) you have nothing to lose by carrying on - even if you do get no eggs at least you'll feel that you tried.  If you don't go for egg retreival and this is your only NHS go you've missed the chance.  We were lucky that we were offered 3 cycles by our PCT. 

Every person is different so when the hospital say things about response and what they expect they're going off a standard cycle for the average person which isn't the same for everyone.  They didn't expect me to react badly but I did.  They didn't think my two smaller follicles were going to get to the right size but they did and they produced eggs and then embyros.

Second time round, I was on the short protocol and appeared to respond better (more follicles) but only ended up with 3 eggs and only 1 embryo this time.  So on paper it appeared to be a better cycle but produced fewer embryos.  The one embryo was put back and I'm now 17 weeks pregnant and so far so good (everyone keep your fingers crossed for us!). 

I was also told that they think the poor response is due to running out of eggs and I'm only 34 but got more follicles a year later down the line.

Doctors know a lot about fertility and getting pregnant but as my doctor said there is still a heck of a lot they don't know.  Don't give up hope - miracles do happen.

I hope everything goes OK for you

Cath
 

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Hello Laura

Sorry to read about this. Its a tough decision to make  ^hugme^.

I have no advice as I have limited knowledge of this but wanted to send a hug and say keep in touch.

Love

Emma xx
 

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Hi Laura,

I'm really sorry you are going through this. It's very strange that on your 1st go you produced so many follicles yet this time not much so far. Have the doctors told you why they think this has happened? They can't really class you as a poor responder because you did well last time. I would try to remain positive and see what happens in a few days.

My first cycle of ivf I responded very badly only 1 follie  and the cycle was cancelled. The clinc did not expect this as my fsh was 5.4. My next cycle I did sp and got 8 follies and 6 eggs but only 1 fertilised nad got a bfn. I have since had my amh tested and it shows I have low fertility despite my fsh being ok. I'm 34 btw. I have now started my 3rd go but having icsi this time and on my antral follicle scan it showed 8 follies so hopefully with the right dosage I should end up ith 8 follies again this cycle. I am doing lp again this time so feel a bit nervous but I will be on twice the dose I was on my first cycle.

I don't really have any advice for you about whether to carry on, it's a very dificult decision to make whether to take yourchances without the pgd. But I have heard of ladies who don't have much at the firstscan and by the time they get to ec they have a good amountof follies.

Got my fingers crossed for you.

Take care,
Karen
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hello ladies
Just wanted to send you all a note with an update on my scan today.  In short the nurse couldn’t believe her eyes this morning and neither could I when she told me that somehow all of my follies had grown and I now had [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected] so 8 viable follicles and 4 edging their way up. The biggest I had on Tuesday was a 12, and 7 were below 10! So the upshot is that not only are we back on but we've got a very good chance of doing PGD again. I just can't believe it.

Basically in between wailing into my pillow, burning my copy of The Secret and refusing to speak to anyone I’ve also slipped in 4 hours of acupuncture drunk goodness only knows how much water/milk, walked around with a hot water bottle strapped to my tummy and tried my best to repeat my mantra – ‘I will not give up on this’

Well something has worked and as much as I am not getting my hopes up (too much) at least we are giving this a go. They've suggested that if it is under 3 embryos we do ICSI but if it is over 3 (which they're hopeful for) we can do PGD. So egg collection is Monday. I am too stunned for words and feel exhausted but happy.

Anna - I asked all the questions today and even got them to copy my notes. The things I wasn't sure about are as follows:

Last FSH was 7.5 and E2 was 117. My last scan was on day 9 and today's is day 13. Interestingly the nurse gave me a shot of Gonal F today too? Thanks again for all your help and encouragement, it's made such a difference over these past few days.

Enjoy the weekend. It seems Friday 13th isn't as unlucky as I thought.

Lots of love
Laura
 

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so pleased to read your update. Wishing you all the best and looking forward to hearing about a big fat BFP - and beyond!
 

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Great news Laura  ;D ;D ;D
 

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Oh Laura - that is great!  Sounds as though your follies were just a little slower to develop this time but that you've still got a good response! 
 
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Great news Laura - I think we are so used to seeing people stim for about 10 days that we forget it can sometimes take longer!..Never give up is clearly the motto!

xxx
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hello girls, just a note to say that they collected 5 eggs this morning which I am pretty pleased about all things considered. We will wait to hear how many have fertilised in the morning and then decide if to do PGD or go straight to ICSI.
Will keep you posted and thanks again for everything.
Laura Goose
xxx
 

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Good news Laura, things sometimes work out but not how you think they would. Hope all goes well tommorow and for ET,
                                                                                                                                                                    Ally
 
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