[mammamia12]

Hi Ladies,

I wonder if you guys can please help me out with a bit of advice?

Basically I'm an old timerwho has acute bilateral hydros and as you can see i have had a fair few ivf's and am about to do another egg-share in Jan. Today I was told by my nhs doctor that I am booked in for surgery for either tubal clipping or removal on 31st January, I've to tell him which I want on 18th of Jan.  I know in my heart that the right thing to do is put the egg-share on hold and have the tubes removed/clipped first but I feel torn as I'm desperate to get cycling again.  My egg-share consultant says he will drain the fluid during egg collection so I am unsure whether to just go ahead with the ivf planned for Jan and if it doesn't work get the tubes out, or whether to put a stop on the egg-share till I'm recovered from the tubal removal/clipping.  What would you guys do?  Is having the fluid remved as good as having the tubes out? Is getting the tubes out completely better than clipped?  Oh man, I feel totally confused.

Any advice would be great!

Thanks

Mia x

PS How long would I have to wait before cycling again after these op's?
PPS I'm unsure if I want to have my tubes removed because of the issues with the ovarian reserve but what is the success rates of ivf after having the tubes clipped? 

 

[lollipops]

Hi Mia.

I know how your feeling right now. I too have been told I need to get my tubes removed/clipped. My clinic had given me the choice to have them removed BEFORE or AFTER my next lot of  treatment . I have chosen to have them removed BEFORE I have any more treatment.
The main reason for me doing this is that during my last FET my tubes became extremely swollen and my clinic informed me that the success rates of the treatment working whilst my tubes were like that had lowered considerably. I had the choice to cancel that treatment and go and get my tubes sorted, however I continued with the treatment and no suprises that the treatment failed. I will never know whether it failed due to my tubes leaking fluid or just because of bad luck again.  I can't put my mind through that worry again, I would hate to start my next FET and my tubes flare up again, it's so hard to walk away from treatment once you have begun so I would rather have the darn things out and then go into my next FET knowing my body is the best it can be. My clinic said I will be able to start treatment again 2 months after the op. I didn't think that was too bad myself, I know some clinics say 3 months post op but check with what yours say. I have been referred to my local NHS hospital so I am just waiting for a letter for my first consultation. I hope the wait is not too long to have the op as I (like you) want to get started with my next treatment asap!
I hope this has helped. Everyones different , and trust me I know its hard to have any patience during treatment,it's only natural to want to crack on with IVF and not have any delays. But having had a treatment fail and knowing it MAY not have failed if I had been patient and had my tubes out was a hard pill to swallow. Our success rates for IVF/ICSI/FET are pretty pants anyway, so my advice is not to let that percentage drop any lower.

All the very best hun, with whatever option you decide to take.

Lolli xxx

 

[Eli1000]

Mine were clipped and I had a succesful pregnancy and have just given birth to my lil boy (now 8 weeks old). So both methods are effective hunni 

 

[mammamia12]

Thanks ladies for your input.  I find that it helps soooo much to have the advice of other people in the same situation  ........I've decided to postpone the next cycle untill the tubes have been dealt with and it seems to i'm having them clipped rather than removed completely (not my desicion, the doc booked me in for this to secure the appointment, however I've been told that he has't booked a long enough time slot to do the removal so unless I want to wait till 28th Feb to have the removal, I only have the option of clipping in jan.  I'm going to go ahead with this if my cons agrees to drain the tubes again at time of EC.  Maybe I'm over-cautious but i really wanted them out completely!  Anyway, trying to look on the bright-side.....

Thanks Again for your advice and best wishes for 2011!

Love Mia x

 

[Penelope Pitstop]

Hi Ladies,

I hope you dont mind me g/c, I am new to this site and I am currently undergoing the same dilemma. Just to give you a bit of background on our situation, we have been ttc for 21 months now, I was diagnosed with tubal damage after a lap and dye in September and told that our chances of conceiving naturally were very slim and that we would be given 3 months and then I would be referred for surgery to remove/clip my tubes. It is not clear if I have hydrosalpinx but the tubal damage is quite severe. We are now in our 3rd month of ttc after the lap and dye and meeting with the consultant tomorrow to discuss the surgery. I really dont want my tubes removed as it seems so final and removes all hope of us ever conceiving naturally but on the other hand I dont want to risk a failed cycle because of the tubes? I am so confused and really dont know what to do?

 

[mammamia12]

Hi Penelope and welcome to the board! 

Nobody can advise you what to do huni, you just need to look at the evidence and decide yourself whats best however you are in a really good position at the mo.  I wish I could rewind to where you are now.....I was in the same situation as you and carried on ttc naturally...the bottom line is that it took a LONG time before we got started on the ivf route then 3 cycles to get my DS and another 4 cycles after that we are still ttc through ivf.  I was never given the option for tubal surgery and i know that given the quality of my embies/blasts that they really should have implanted at a higher rate than they did.  I believe that the fluid in my tubes was the problem and am extremely angry that i was referred for treatment before having the tubes treated. Nobody told me that this fluid can be toxic and I've spent years, lots of money and heartache which could have been avoided if i'd had the option to get rid of these useless tubes!  If I were you I would accept that you may never concieve naturally and focus completely on what will give you the best chance of success through ivf.  In my opinion, get the tubes dealt with (removal has better chances of pregnancy but has the risk of reducing ovarian reserve, clipping has a lesser chance of pregnancy after ivf but cuts out the risk of reduced ovarian reserve).  Like I said, you decide whats best for you and try not to focus on what isn't possible but what IS possible.....Good luck!

Mia x

 

[Penelope Pitstop]

Hi Mia,
Thank you for your response to my post. We met with our consultant yesterday to discuss removal of my tubes and we have agreed to go ahead with it. He advised us that without this surgery our success rate with IVF will drop from 65% to 30%.  I am meeting with the surgeon on 12th Jan where I will find out if they plan to clip  or remove the tubes. I didnt know that removal can affect the ovarian reserve so I will disucss this with her at our appointment. My surgery is scheduled for 22nd Feb 2011. I know it is for the best but I cant help but feel sad that any children that we have will have to be through IVF.  I wouldnt wish this on anyone but its nice to know that there are others going through the same thing as us, I have felt so alone and abnormal for so long as all our friends have been popping out babies with no problems at all.

xxxx

 

[mammamia12]

Hey Penelope,

I know how you feel hun.  It just doesn't seem fair does, it?

All I can say is that your really lucky to have been given the option to have the tubes dealt with before you even start on the ivf route, you could be like me and have spent 10years wondering why the ivf's aren't working before discovering the cause. I have my pre-op assessment on the 11th of Jan so lets meet up on the 12th to swap info.....i'm still not sure what to go for, the clipping or removal so I will be excited to hear what they say to you.....

Good luck huni, and the end of the day it doesn't matter how your kids are concieved, but just that you HAVE kids in the first place....

Mia x

 

[Penelope Pitstop]

Hi Mia,

Happy new year!!

You're right it doesnt seem fair but then I guess I am lucky to have been given the option as I know as you were I would be devastated if Id put all my hopes into IVF and it didnt work because of my tubes. I think that although I new we probably needed IVF that there as still some small chance that we would be able to conceive naturally, if not now but later and this chance will no longer exist one Ive had the surgery.

Will definately meet up after our consultations on the 12th to compare notes.

Wishing you lots of luck and catch up with you soon

xxxx

 

[shades]

hi ive had iv 4 times then discovered i had hydrasalpinx in the left tube but it could not be removed due to being so close to the bowel but was drained and clipped with 2 filshie clips ive been expereincing pain in the area since the opp and feel unable to proceed witht he ivf as walking upstairs and driving causes pain in the area im feeling so depressed as the doc said its jst gonna take time to heal  and it could be internal bruising but its been 8 weeks since opp and i feel no better .

 

[prudunce]

Im due to have 1 tube clipped(i hope its just the one)does that mean i will only make eggs in the remaining overy??im going thro ivf and cant work out how i will produce eggs if tubes clipped??

 

[Penelope Pitstop]

Hi Mia,

Just thought Id update you after my appointment today. Well were keep waiting for 45 minutes which seems to be the norm for most of our appointments. We met with the surgeon who will be doing the surgery,she also did my lap and dye so she spent some time going through the findings from this surgery. She doesnt think she will be able to remove all of the tubes as they are attached to my ovaries and there is a risk of cutting off the blood supply to the ovaries making them useless so she said she will look to remove part of the tubes and if this is not possible then she will just clip them. She did offer us a chance to postpone the surgery until April so that we could have a few more months ttc naturally but she said our chances of conceiving are very slim so we have opted to go ahead as planned in Feb. She did say that she noted hydrosalpinx during the operation, which confirms our decision to go ahead with the op but has angered  me as when we enquired about this with consultant at IVF clinic she said we didnt have hydrosalpinx. She also neglected to tell us that I have mild pcos!!!! Why dont these people communicate with one another!!!! The surgeon today highlighted the risks of IVF and OHSS with those patients with pcos....it just feels as though everything is against us at the moment and that our dream of a baby is slowing slipping away.    Trying to be  but its so hard at the moment.

Hope your appointment went well?

xxx 

 

[julieSA]

Hi Mia - just thought i'd share my experience of this subject.  All my ivfs had failed up until #4 - i had my tubes cleared just before my ivf , and i got a BFP (although I did miscarry).  My 5th ivf also failed and at that point i changed clinics.  My new clinic had seen that the hyrdo had returned (and should have been spotted by my old clinic) and they advised me not to have any future ivfs until i had my tubes removed - the consultant there was adamant that removal was by far the better option than clipping.  He told me that the fluid was more than likely detrimental to future treatment.  I did have both my tubes removed in the september and started IVF as soon after, with a BFP by early December.  I hardly had to wait any time in between my salpingectomy and my IVF.  I am so glad i had my tubes removed now - they were doing nothing for me and in my opinion, prevented all my previous IVF attempts from being successful.  It wasn't a big operation and was all done keyhole.  Also i had it done under my work private health insurance as a "gynae" issue so didn't have to deal with a waiting list or incur fees.

Good luck for the future. xxx

 

[lollipops]

Julie - thanks so much for your positive message. It's lovely to hear of a success story after tubal surgery. It helps us all remain positive .


I am going to my consulation at the hospital tomorrow about my tubal op. Wish me luck ladies!!!

lolli xx

 

[mammamia12]

Hi Ladies,

Great to see we got a good wee thread going here....

Julie - Congrats on your BPF huni, if only we knew that we'd all get there in the end it would make this journey a whole lot easier, eh? Well done and keep us posted on how 'bump' is coming on...x

Shades - I'm sorry to hear of your discomfort huni.  If I were you i'd ask for a second opinion as I was told I'd probs be fine within a week.  Let us know how you get on.x

Prudunce - Don'y worry huni, you'll still have eggs on both sides, the tube has nothig to do with egg production. The egg will be released from your ovary, then would normally travel down the tube into the uterus where, if fertilised, would possibly implant.  In ivf the tubes are bypassed so calm down babes, you don't really need them.  Any more questios just ask  x

Penelope - Try not to feel so down.  Remember every step of the journey you take is another toward your BFP!  You and I are basically in the same position, as I too am having my tubes clipped.  At time of EG  I will ask my doc to drain any fluid that has accumulated since the clipping.  That way hopefully I'm eliminating the chance of reduced ovarian reserve, but hopefully making sure that no fluid escapes after ET.  I'm rather excited actually as I know it seems a pain in the a** to have to go through this, but honestly, after being through so many treatments and having a neg result I am just happy to have some hope that finally THIS could help it work this time.  Try to think of the good in the situation hun, it will be worth it in the end! Although with the way you get treated by some of the consultants it's sooooo easy to get totally and utterly p*ssed off with the whole situation...  Oh, and as for the mild PCOS - snap!  It's not been officially confirmed but my amh is 60 and I lots of small cysts on one of my scans so it def looks like it, but as long as they know about it, they will adjust your medication accordingly so it's really no big deal.  It would be more of a issue for you if they DIDN'T notice it as that could cause problems later down the line.  Honestly, you are doing the best thing to get your bfp.  Have you heard of the zita west cd for ivf?  I bought it for £15 off her website, it's really good.  It's for relaxation and also positive visualisation.  It's good, maybe you should try it as it will help remove these negative feelings and replace them with positive ones whcih can only be good, right?  Also, a wee tip from an old timer would be to try Michaels Female Reproductice Factors.  I have them now and used them for a few months before the cycle that got me my DS.  It's just a multi-vitamin but it all helps, eh?  I think a months supply is about £20 but they do help.  You can get them off amazon or i use the Jan De Vries website who also give you free delivery.....

Well, I gotta go just now but let me know what you think and how your feeling tomorrow.  Hopefully you feel a bit more positive.....remember PMA!!!! X X X X X

love

Mia x x x

 

[julieSA]

good luck today lolli at your consultation.  fingers crossed for you x.x.

mia, our "bump" is sitting in her bouncer right now gurgling for england! she's on her way to six months old.  We are having a frozen cycle in a few weeks to try for #2 so it will be interesting to see what happens there - if we get a BFP then i will be convinced that my messed up tubes had been the problem for my previous cycles.

I am disappointed when i think back that my tubes and hyrdo wasnt looked into until our 4th/5th ivf, but you are right, you do have to remain positive.  I do feel that we wasted so many chances at the beginning by not knowing about the tubal issues, but we got there in the end as so will you all.  We are now at a stage where we have to stop at some point due to financial reasons, but we will try to make the best of the cycles that we can afford and hope that it works again for us.

Good luck to all you ladies.
x.x.x.x.x.

 

[mammamia12]

Hi Julie,

Fantastic news!  Great to hear about your happy ending.  We also lucky and had our 'bump' back in 2006 after cycle 3 and he's now a big school boy in P1!  But like you, I've had a fair few cycles that have been negative and I also put that down to my tubes.  That's what I was saying to Penelope - she is lucky to have had the issue raised before she starts her first cycle, I really wish my hydros had been dealt with in the beginning BUT also like you we hope to start cycling asap after the clipping so gingers crossed for us all....just a wee quick reply as need to rush out the door to the school but great to have as many positive stories as possible.

Hugs to you all

Mia x x x x

 

[Penelope Pitstop]

Hi All,

Feeling a bit more positive today and it helps that Ive got you lovely ladies to talk too. Mia you are right I am lucky to have had my tubal and hydro issues identified early on before we start treatment, its unfair that youu and so many others have to go through several failed treatments before this was picked up.

Mia, I think it was the shock of finding out that I had pcos that shook me a little as thought we only had tubal problems but I guess as you've had a successful treatment with pcos I shouldnt worry too much as like you say they know about it now and they can adjust my medication as they need too.

Lolli, how did you appointment go?
xxx

 

[lollipops]

Hi ladies!

Penelope
mammamia
Julie
Prudence
Shades
and anyone else I may have missed

Penelope- glad your feeling brighter and more positive. Its so hard at times to pick yourself up- but you can do it! This site is a good send!

Mia- I like you am starting to think my darn tubes should have been dealt with before any treatment. Its the not knowing if my tubes are the reason its not worked for me so far or if was just bad luck. Fingers crossed your boy gets a brother or sister! xx

Julie- bless your little one gurgling away in her bouncer! I wish you lots of luck for your next cycle!

Well I had the consultation today. It was OK. I must admit I was miffed when we found out our doctor wasn't actually in today and instead we spoke to another Dr who unforunately couldn't speak the best english in the world! He had know Idea of my past and seemed confused about the whole thing. I had to carefully explain that my fertility clinic had suggested I need my tubes removed / clipped to help my chances of me concieving though IVF. So he simply said ''OK, lets do your consent forms for tubal clipping'' - I tried to ask him if in his opinion he thought having my tubes sorted was the best idea and I got no-where, he just looked confused and said '' If its what you want'' (?!?!) I also asked him why he says he wants me to clip the tubes not remove and the bottom line of that was that its cheaper and quicker to clip than remove. My DH was getting quite annoyed with him and we both wanted some encouragment that this procedure was for the best and abit of advice on the whole ''to clip or remove'' dilema. But all I got was forms to sign and sharp looks! And I couldnt understand I blummin word he was saying! A heathcare assistant was in the room with us and when we left she gave me my proper dr's number and told me to ring him to clear up any worries I have. She said that my Dr may still want to see me in person before the Op, but If he doesn't I should ring him to chat things over with him.
I just expected more advice. Or Is that silly? I wanted the Dr to just give some support and I wanted to see that the Dr agreed with my clinics recommendation of getting the tubes sorted. Afterall once its done , theres no going back! I did get some leaflets on sterilization from a nurse! Nice! I prompty told her that I wasn't having this done to be sterilized but to help my chances in IVF. But she looked like she couldn't care less.
Does anyone know the pro's and con's of removal vs clipping?
I am sorry for the long, moany post! I just needed to get it out! The good news is that the waiting list should be between 4-6 wks. So by end of feb I should be all done. Which will mean next FET in April/May. I have to try and look at these positives!

xx

 

[julieSA]

Lollipop - i can totally understand your frustration.  you need black and white answers and its hard when that's not the case.  definately speak to your other doctor and have a list of questions for him to answer.  You need to be 100% regarding these decisions and it doesn't help when they dont tell you what you need to hear - we rely on these people for the best way forward.  As regards clipping v. removal, after my 5th ivf failed at chelsfield hospital, i saw the consultant who suggested clipping.  I was in two minds about changing clinics and at the consultation at my new clinic (CRGH), the doctor was adamant that removal was by far the better option than clipping.  the fluid can still build up in the tubes if you have them clipped.  i dont know the medical in's and out's but i see it as poisonous fluid that could be detrimental to any embryos trying to settle in.  The thing is, it might be cheaper for the doctors to clip them as they said to you, but it wont be cheaper for you in the long run if you have multiple ivfs.  Its not silly at all to expect more advice.  you should expect to leave those sorts of consultations with a clear way forward and knowing that the operation is going to give you the best outcome in the long run.   

Prudence,  i did have my tubes drained about a month before my ivf #4.  This ivf was successful, although i did miscarry about 5 weeks.  I went straight in for  #5 which was a bfn and straight after, i was scanned and it was found that the hydros were back again.  my old clinic did not deal with the hydro during number 5, which is really frustrating.  at my new clinic, after i had my tubes taken out, my next ivf (number 6!) was successful, resulting in my daughter.  After my tubal surgery in the September, i think i was down regging my the end of October, with a bfp at the beginning of Dec 09 so all in all, it wasn't long after the op until the end of my ivf treatment. 

As i said, in no way do i know the medical in's and out's of clipping and removal, but for me, i am glad i went down the removal path.  My tubes were totally useless to me whilst inside and i am pretty sure they were the reason for my many failed attempts a ivf.  I did feel sad after i had them removed - after all, there is now a zero chance of a natural conception.... while they were there, there was always the possibility - albeit a very very small one... but i just tried to get my head round the fact that my tubes were far more of a hindrance than a help so getting them out was, in hindsight, was the best thing i've done on this ttc journey.  Like Mia and Lollipop, i am just gutted it wasn't addressed at the beginning, but that's the way it was i suppose!!!  I know many people have become pregnant after having their tubes clipped rather than removed so i dont want to sound like i am against one or the other, but i just know in my circumstances, it was removal that worked for me.

To change the subject (!!!!) i picked up my meds today and went to have my bloods done - we are starting an FET hopefully in the next couple of weeks.  I've got a scan next thurs to make sure that my uterus is all ok - i had a c-section with my daughter so i think they just scan to see about scar tissue and to see if im all back to normal as i only delivered just over 5 months ago.  but if that's all ok, hopefully, i can start taking the meds soon.  I managed to talk my GP into giving me a presciption for some of the meds so that's saved us some money.  unfortunately, we have a limit on how much cash we can put into treatment as our savings are running low now.  we've spent a blummin fortune on ivf over the a last couple of years and as much as i dont want to, we are going to have to stop at some point, but i know how lucky we are to have our lovely little Delilah.

Hope you lovely ladies all have a good weekend. 
.x.x.x