11th hour I'll post some suggestions for you tomorrow when I'm recovered from work this week!
Tizz maybe we will indeed cycle during September together and lets hope we both have a +ve result this time.
Piglets - adrenals are nb for skin tone, so could indicate they under a bit of strain - or not, I would mention to Dr DP he may have a good suggestion. As for suggested creams for relief - Dr Palmers coconut cream is good natural skin barrier without the petrochemical additions you get in cheaper skin creams good for skin generally (might have one for stretch marks as well as general moisture) should be able to find in boots or health care shops. Reassuring that you had it before in previous pregnancies though....
Hi I am about to embark on a IVF cycle in 2 and half weeks time. I do have an underactive thyroid gland for which I take 100mg of thyroxine. I am have just had another test which I wait the result for but my last ones in february were 0.3 TSH and 16.4 free T4.
The doctors have said that it is fine because of the free T4 result including several IVF clinics that I approached with all my results. I have no symptoms ( thankfully ) other then in the last two cycles my period have become lighter and I don't bleed that much compared to what I used to ( sorry TMI ) I have been on clomid for most months since last June and interestingly enough I read in some earlier post that oestrogen might affect the thyroid. It has usually been within the normal range ( though can't say what that was ) I am also on foresight supps and was told to told iodine to help this. Can you tell me if this level is ok - I will update with my latest results when I get them next week. Thanks for any help love Karen xxx
Hi Karen, those number look good to me and if you don't have any other symptoms that is another confirmation that all in in order. I read somewhere that oestrogen increase the number of proteins that bind with thyroid rendering it unusable by the body. I have found that my periods have been lighter in recent years, I researched a little though and the information out there seems to be that hypothyriodism makes periods heavier...Tizz and discussed this topic earlier and wondered if lighter periods = hyper but I think that our conclusion was there was no conculsion, it is how we feel that matters. Do you know what your bbt is like? How are you finding that foresight plan? I was always tempted by that even cut some hair from my neck at one stage but never sent it off. How curious that they put you on iodine - I was cautioned against that, if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimotos) it can be dangerous.
11th Hour been thinking of your question, I have read about Wilsons syndrome and reverse t3, I think that you need to follow your instincts on where to go from here, you could check it out to eliminate. I had very similar numbers until recently, my T4 was always low but my TSH was almost zero... it didn't add up. Here are a few more suggestions
1) get your adrenal function checked out - I personally think that IVF is an adrenal killer both because of the stress and because all those drugs push endocrine system to extreme limits - when your adrenal function is poor it can result in poor conversion of T4 (the type we medicate with) to T3 (the biologically active form of thyroid hormone). Basically your T4 thyroid hormone is 'normal' therefore TSH is within desired range but your body cannot convert it into a form that it can use. The concept of adrenal fatigue is more of an complimentary / alternative medicine concept, you would have to explore this privately
2) Ask your doctor to test the free levels of T3 and T4
3) Consider a consult with Dr Durrant-Peatfield, he will check out all of the thyroid levels and uses more accurate tests such as the amount of thyroid actually used within a certain time rather than the amount in your blood - many of the ladies here have been seeing him and have reported with positive feedback. Dr DP will also check adrenals as it tends to follow hypothyroidism
3) Change to a low GI load diet - sugar or rather insulin stops conversion from T4 to T3
5) consider heavy metal testing - heavy metals esp mercury tend to accumulate in endocrine glands, in particular it stops the pituitary functioning properly and can lead to low TSH combined with low T4 levels
hi thanks for your reply I was worried about the 0.3 because the the range said between 0.5 and 4.2 ( I thought I read on here between 1 and 2 is good for fertility or have I got the scale wrong?!! ) but they said although it was a bit low my free T4 was good so they were not worried. I started the pill this month for the first time in 13 years!! in preparation for my IVF cycle. Before that I was doing my BBT and basically before ov would be around 36.2/3 and very occasionally a blip one of 35.9 and then after ov 36.5, 36.7/8 or a bit higher. If that result is good I am too scared to get my new one in case it has gone pearshaped!! thanks for your help again love Karen xxx
My endocrinologist likes to see a tsh of anything below 2 and when mine was at similar levels to yours he wasnt bothered. Some others here have reported 1-2 as being optimal but IM not sure what the references were.
Regarding bbt, Dr DP would like to see a reading of 37 in the first 5 days of your period (after that body temp rises anyway due to ov). He would probably consider your readings to be on the low side but he does look at things holistically and would not tend to draw a conclusion on just one sign or symptom. It's very reassuring that you are feeling well.
Dippy you are right, we didnt draw a particular conclusion on the light periods but our curiosity was stoked by the fact that it was a common feature for about 3-4 of us on the thread at the time. Having see Dr DP there is now certainly a suspicion in my case that if I had low adrenal reserve then t3 uptake would be poor and therefore metablisation of oestrgen could be compromised - which could explain endometrium not getting about certain thickness. Also possible issue with candida (dont know results yet).
You all sound so knowledgeable about thyroid!!! Ive had hypothyroid for years but it never really bothered me until we wanted to start a family. I ve had 2 lots of tests recently
Jan 08 T4 =36 and TSH = 0.01
April 08 T4 = 19.3 and TFT = 0.05 altho the doc said TSH was .05 (bit confused if you can help me on this one)
I am worried about TSH being too low, my med was red from 200 to 175mg but i still feel tsh is low again i read bet 1 -2 was optimal so im concerned, havent been able to get any info from IVF nurses and waiting to speak again to fert dr cos everyone has a diff view about range (my gp said it was fine but hen i told him about tx he agreed it was too low) having had 2 m/c last year i dont want to start IVF again without being in the right range
Can anyone suggest if my resukts are ok or if they need changing what the range is?
Hi, I have read some of your posts and wondered if anyone could help.
I am desperate for advice and would be grateful for any.
My story in brief - I was told I had slightly abnormal thyroid results (6.4 tsh, my t4 was in lower range of normal and positive antibodies - not completely sure of actual figures as GP seemed very protective of them for some reason!). Initially she was not going to treat until I told her that I would not leave her office until something was done as life has been horrendous with awful symptoms... she reluctantly agreed to start me on 50mcg of thyroxine - this was about 5 weeks ago.
Since then, things have improved but am still getting pins and needles in hands, feet and limbs, periods that have changed completely (irregular, reduced flow and shorter this month, pretty non existent last month and the previous months heavy) and we have been trying to conceive since miscarriage 6 months ago with no success. This is particularly strange as we have always found conceiving to not normally be the problem (in 18 months up until 6 months ago, have been pregnant 3 times - one ectopic, then my daughter who was born very prematurely = she will be one tomorrow - and then the miscarriage).
I feel my hormones are all over the place and don't think the doctor is taking me seriously. What can I do? Dr has ordered fsh levels which am waiting for the results of. Could this be thyroid even though my results are not extreme? Or is it something more serious. When you are feeling ill or strange all of the time, it is difficult not to start worrying about everything. I have self diagnosed myself so many times from googling all symptoms - not always the best thing to do!!!
Gosh Tizz - you are very knowledgable all that studying has paid off hunni!!!! On the lightness of periods, mine certainly has improved of late my period only actually lasts 2-3 days with 'normal' heaviness - still too short according to my acupuncturist I think - but that is up from 1-2 days of very scant. My ewcm has improved as adrenal function improved recently. I am curious to hear your candida results, I think I mentioned that I tested positive for high NK cells and TNF Alpha after last IVF but these came down after candida was addresses I am curious if you do test +ve if your outcome might be similar
ManiT - your results do sound like your thyroid meds might be a little on the high side, you should aim for TSH of between 1 and 2. If you are IVFing you'll probably get away with a slightly higher TSH (say between .5 and 1) cos all those drugs can dilute thyroid levels a little (higher oestrogen levels can reduce the amount of free T4) but might be worth getting in the 'zone'. It can take 4 weeks for TSH to completely adjust following a thyroid meds change and you would be well advised to work with an endocrinologist to adjust the doses.
It is also important is that your thyroid is stable - because of the way that the brain controls thyroid levels the TSH is effectively an average reading. Do you have any symptoms of hyper thyroidism or periods where you feel hyperthyroid?
You could explore the complementary medicine option of checking out your adrenal function, compromised adrenal function can mess up fertility (for example egg quality improves with DHEA, DHEA is produced only by the adrenals, also raw material for sex hormones and immune system (cortisol) etc). Many of the girls on this thread have been attending Dr Barry Durrant-Peatfield who tests and treats adrenals and thyroid (more sophisticated tests) - their feedback speaks for itself - if you check out the previous thread you'll be able to read all about it.
Finally, it might be worth asking your GP to check your immune status - this might highlight if you have any antibodies that might push you into the hyper zone or if you are simply overmedicated. Also if you test positive and bearing in mind two miscarriages you might wish to consider researching the work of Dr Alan Beer - he specializes in immune related implantation failure and miscarriages and argues that in the presence of anti thyroid antibodies he will assume that there is an impact on fertility unless proven otherwise check out the immunology thread for more info.
Jak hunni well done for sticking to your guns - GPs I'm sure are stretched to the limit but sometimes it is just too easy to send us off with a prescription for antidepressants or simply tell us that we are imagining the symptoms. Thyroid kind of creeps up on you over time such that before you know it you are overweight, depressed, bald, infertile, moody, exhausted etc etc and you put it down to old age. I promise you, if this is thyroid then with the right medication you will feel better than you have done for years... sadly you do have to argue your case sometimes with doctors first. If you are lucky you will respond well to the thyroid medication given by mainstream doctors - this is a synthetic version of the hormone T4 people with otherwise healthy bodies can convert this easily into the form that the body uses - mostly T3. Some of us - and I was certainly one of them - don't respond well to this medication. If this is your experience, you might want to consider alternatives. For now I suggest that you give the medication that the doctor has prescribed a chance to work - say 4 to 6 weeks and if you don't feel better you could explore other options including more sophisticated thyroid tests adrenal function - these would have to be private though. One the plus side thyroid levels of over 6 would as far as I am aware make pregnancy neigh on impossible and would also make it difficult to sustain a pregnancy as your thyroid demands increase a lot in early pregnancy - miscarriage is a symptom of hypothyroidism. Whist the internet is great - particularly the Mary Shoman website, I recommend you invest in a good thyroid book read and re-read it, take it to the doctor with you. Check out 'What your doctor may not tell you about hypothyroidism' by Ken Blanchard this is fairly mainstream what I love about it is that it has chapters on stages of life and what to look out for including full explanation of thyroid and hypothyroidism, plus a section on optimising fertility, a discussion in immune related infertility, one on pregnancy and how to interview a thyroid doctor not too complicated for us lay people either. Slightly more alternative minded but possibly a better book is 'Your thyroid and how to keep it healthy' by Dr Barry Durrant-Peatfield (the guy that the girls on this thread have been attending) - this book lists the exact symptoms that you describe and includes a section on adrenal health and thyroid and explains how it all overlaps.
How is everyone else getting on - Coco - haven't heard from you in AGES - how are you getting on
Thanks for considering my post. I havn't been on for a while as i've been intensively researching what i can on thyroid stuff and also adrenal fatigue. So, its good to hear that what you think about the connection between IVF drugs and the thyroid.adrenals. I dont know if there is much discussion on this on this site, or book either. if you find some, let me know.
I have read many sites but I think that at some point soon I will book an appointment wit Dr BP as i'm in Central London. I have looked at all the sites that offer tests. Im thinking of all or some of: adrenal fatigue testing, female hormone testing via saliva and praps salivary thyroid testing. It all add up tho, money wise
Re: adrenal fatigue, ive been taking large doses of Vit C/calcium and i think ill invest in some liquid magnesium to support my system.
Im still charting my basal body temp. I am also trying to do it a few times a day. Apparently it should be three hours after your rise times by 3. but im am either working and it is not possible to whip the thermometer out in class.
I think that i do need an expert now to interpret the results. I've read so much now I think i'm getting confused and also starting to think I have everything. ( moon in virgo - i'm a born hypochondriac) I'm a terrible one for a bit of medical obsession.
Hi 11th hour - just a quickie before I log off - if you are saving pennies - you could opt for the adrenal test and leave the female hormone levels for a while, my logic is if your adrenals or thyroid are low then your sex hormones will be low too (adrenals produce among other things the raw materials for oestrogen and progesterone; thyroid is known as third ovary in some alternative medicine circles). Also, I suggest you ask Dr DP about the iodine - if you have hashimotos might be contraindicated.
Has Dr DP noticed a sudden increase in fertility patients I wonder
Just wanted to add my two cents to the 'length of period' discussion. Mine had got lighter and shorter over the last couple of years (down to 1 and a bit days and what I would call light flow). After 8 months of acupuncture it is now three days - of which two days is what I would call steady medium flow and one of lighter flow. My acupuncturist (who specialises in fertility) is happy with this. She said that the main thing is that the flow is steady and not intermittent (and also that it is a bright red colour and no or very few clots, and no/few cramps) I guess my concern with short/light periods has been that it might mean that my endometrial lining might not be thick enough to support implantation. But my acupuncturist also said that some people (and I'm paraphrasing here) are more efficient at breaking down the lining of the uterus - which I took to mean that some people may appear to have less quantity of lining - but their body is just breaking it down so it looks that way. She reckons I am one of those. My last period was as I described above - and I had an ultrasound on day 23 (it was 28 day cycle) and my lining was 12.5 mm which everyone seemed very happy with. So I feel reassured. By the way - the thyroxine (I've been on it for more than 6 weeks now) doesn't seem to have changed my period much. (altho this is the first 28 cycle in a long while - I am usually 25 or 26 days.... so maybe that could be the 'thyroxine effect'.)
DippyGirl - I saw my reproductive immunologist last week and especially asked him about DHEA for you. He said that DHEA is not proven to help and that there's only been two studies done - and i think he said they were in NY - and they were inconclusive. He's had several patients take it (off their own bat I think) and he saw no improvement. Sorry I couldn't tell you that he thought it's the answer.
He didn't think I needed to take any of the various supplements that I do (mostly from Randine Lewis' book 'The Infertility Cure')- but said if it makes me feel better and if I believe in them then I should take them - because there's a quite significant 'other' factor (I think he said 'placebo factor'!) at play in all this too.... Of course I DO believe in all those supplements - so who cares if it's placebo or real (altho sugar pills would be a lot cheaper!) The only thing he didn't want me taking while in cycle is Chinese herbs.
I actually really liked him, he was so relaxed and natural and interested in us as people - and his clinical expertise is renowned. He answered every question thoughtfully and gave us lots of time. He arranged the NK cell blood test (free here) which we get results from in a week and also the sperm fragmentation test ($200 here). So we'll find out then if I need any extra drugs.
It was good to realise that I don't need him to be 'into' my supplements/herbs etc. I just need him to be really good at what he does (and I believe he is) - and I have my acupuncturist to consult on herbs and supplements. She doesn't recommend herbs during first cycle anyway - she wants to see how I respond to drugs. So - I start down-regulating in 22 days - it will be our first IVF cycle. So fingers crossed!
With best wishes to everyone.
found out hypothyroid 6+ weeks ago
taking 50mcg thyroxine
TSH dropped from 5.9 to 1.9
T4 on its way up
Dippygirl thanks for the info, my fert dr has had me tested for immune probs, 1st lot came back clear, 2nd lot showed lupus anticoagulant, so had 3rd lot and am waiting for results, hopefully 2moro, based on this they will decide whether i am positive for lupus or not and medicate accordingly - i think they tned to go for aspirin and heparin, hes already said no prednisolone for me cos i am diabetic and he thinks it will make it worse ie harder to stabilise glucose levels (which i have finally got under tight control)
do you think lupus would impact on thyroid? also i just lost 30lbs in about 4 months so bmi is 25 now, could this have an effect on thyroid, making my meds too high cos of less body mass? also on metformin which sensitises me better for insulin and i know so much of it is interconnected so maybe that has all had a part to play. i havent lost any more weight really for about a month so its stable now and i would have expected that any effect that might have had to have been negated by now - what do you think? sorry about the 6 million questions!!!! (but i still hope u can answer them! )
HI Manti - I have read something about thyroid and weight loss - something about thyroid getting locked into fat cells and when loosing weight getting released. Which book did I read it in though....and I have no idea of the quantities of thyroid we are talking about? I'll have a read over the weekend. For the record Ken Blanchard reckons that when thyroid levels are too high we develop a large appetite making weight loss more difficult than when at the desired levels. Thinking about it more likely that the other stuff you are taking is having an impact on the amount of thyroid your body needs (insulin for example interferes the conversion from T4 to t3) the endocrine system overlaps so much it is actually rather fascinating.... I would be curious to know your T3 levels.
Sare - you are so lucky, sounds like you are surrounded with good people. Thanks for asking about the DHEA - I know that it has made a big difference to me already but I'll do more research and I am seeing my thyroid doctor soon I'll come clean about self medicating and ask for a discussion and probably test my DHEA levels. I do think that it is messing around with my thyroid levels a little - BBT 36.4 and some other mild hypo symptoms although recently doubled my medication. Also thanks for the feedback on periods - mine does otherwise fit all the acupuncture criteria - bright red and steady 2- 3 days. IO'm a Radine Lewis fan too must re-read that book before my next cycle D x
thank you Dippy for your advice. I have ordered those books.
Have just come back from the doctors who reported that TSH now at 2.9 so that is good but that my FSH level is abnormally low (0.5) and my LH also low at 0.6. She doesn't know what is going on. So now am lost!!! Am being referred to gynecologist but wonder whether should be referred to an endocrinologist instead... My oestradiol was 789.
Wish they could work out what is going on in this body.
Does anyone know where I can attempt to self diagnose please?
your fsh and lh numbers sound as low as mine. I think its too complex an area to self-diagnose. In my case its a confirmed case of failure of pituitary and/or hypothalamus to send the right signals to the ovaries. Though Im a little bit surprised that with such a low fsh you have such a high oestrogen level - but there's always a possibility that there is an error somehwhere in the readings.
In fertility treatment your own hormones are overriden though - an endocrinologist would be good to see but the gynae should be able to help too.
It would be nice to hear how peeps here are getting on with their treatment plans, pregnancies (!) and new arrival. Coconut, I agree with Dippy - long time no hear!
Tizz is spot on - couldn't possibly comment but my first reaction is a bit like Tizz - check for errors then start asking about your pituitary - Tizz how did you get diagnosed?
I'm with Tizz would love to hear how others are getting on with Dr DP, pregnancies and babies - babycrazy aka Karen just spotted a photo of your little one in old posts - what a cutie! TIzz how is your treatment coming along?
Just found you as did not realise part 2 had started, also with a shortened title. My goodness what a lot going on.
Yes Dippy, I have sorted the photo problem, I could not get any on FF using my new camera as too many pixels. I now have a few pix in the gallery, but only one of Willow is good the other is lovely but she has devils eyes (red) and as for me I look as old as i really am. I will have to get some 5yr old to show me how to use a camera properly and take some more.
Dippy and tizzy you are a pair of real diamonds, taking the trouble to sort all these girls out. God bless you both and may all your dreams come to fruition.
Karen she looks a a little diamond, thanks for the photo! Our first snap of a success here. Hope you are enjoying it all!
Jak - it's difficult to speculate. In my opinion fertility clinics rarely look at underlying causes of infertility where hormones are concerned (they just try to work round it). They they tend to get more involved when there is a gynaecological cause (e.g. treat the endometriosis, remove the blocked tube or hydo etc before cycling you). This is where seeing an endocrinologist would be of more help . Remember tho there may be an error in the readings so its important not to jump the gun. I know the waiting drives us but the one thing Ive learnt is that you have to proceed systematically where anything hormonal is concerned!
Dippy - my issue was iron damage to the pituitay/ hypothalamus - its specifically related to my other condition. Regarding Peatfield treatment, nothing very surprising going on but I think my energy levels maaaay be a bit better. its only end of week 2 though. Have got the urinary thyroid results back but Peatfield on holiday so dont have formal interpretation - may email you hunni . Candida only sent off this week. How you doing? Hope you still feeling great
Anyway, thats it for me, I bid you good night my lovlies!