Hi Hayley,

Welcome to FF I can’t speak for the clinics you’ve mentioned or any personal success/failure stories yet however I’ve recently commenced our first ICSI cycle with UCH/CRGH.
My partner also has extremely low count. We had been trying for a year and a half when we saw the GP and the first semen analysis showed no sperm. Further testing and “spinning” showed between 2-10 individual sperm per sample.
We were referred for ICSI straight away but of course NHS takes a while, it’s now 3.5 years after we started trying that we are finally on the first round.
I am also very anxious that none of my eggs (if retrieved) are fertilised and if they do then whether they’ll develop. Obviously with ICSI you are interfering with nature and potentially will end up with a higher chance of abnormalities but we’ve just got to try and take comfort that the embryologist will choose the healthiest looking ones. I’m just trying to eat a good diet and think positively.
I’ve just finished 10 days of norethisterone and waiting for AF before my baseline scan to start stimms so will keep you updated on our progress.
Feel free to ask any questions and I’ll try and answer them if I can.
Best of luck x


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Hey guys

I have no experience with those clinics either but I have had 2 successful icsi treatments for similar issues, my hubby has motility and morphology issues.
I was 34 for my first icsi and got 14 eggs on long protocol but only 2 made it to blast, one AB and the other too poor to even freeze. My hubby did Chinese medicine and accupuncture plus cupping. We took what looks like a ton of vitamins and supplements for 3 months before starting icsi as I’m sure the sperm is made 3 months in advance if that makes sense. If you do all the healthy stuff now it will improve the spern that’s being made but won’t be noticed until 3 months.
I was 35 on my last icsi and we didn’t do any vitamins other than the wellman, pregnacare stuff and like last time I only ended up with 2 embryos to blast one BC and the other too poor to freeze I was fortunate to conceive both times and have healthy children.

I can say that positive thoughts and visualisation is good and the need to try and go about life as normal as hard as I know that is, conceiving naturally you would just go about life fine and that’s important to maintain a healthy life and pregnancy, try and not beat yourself up and let your mind rest. This process is harsh and it takes a lot out of you but if you can try and live as normal a way of life as you can it makes it a bit easier.

 

Hi Hayley

I remember getting the news about our poor sperm in the GP surgery, it came back as zero and our worlds very much shattered at that point.  We'd been trying for almost 2 years at that point and it finally gave us a reason as to why I'd not fallen pregnant.

We've had 3 fresh ICSI cycles and one frozen, it's been tough but the only way for us.  We were advised by our clinic to try proxeed supplements for DH and it was the only thing to noticibly improve sperm volume, morphology and motility. Our clinic advises not to take any herbs as there have been cases where they've had an adverse effect on treatment so I'd check with your clinic before starting those just in case.

There are lots of success stories  on here, for  some it works first time and for others a few attempts but there's lots of support on the site through cycle buddy threads when you're going through treatment.

Good luck 

Dory
Xx

 

Hello Montymoomoo,

Thanks for getting in touch and sorry that we both find ourselves in this unfortunate situation.

The worry is dreadful isn't it…? I wish I could put me to sleep and woken me up when it's all done!- Fingers crossed for a happy outcome for us both. How is your partner copying?

I had a quick Google about what you mentioned about risk of higher chance of abnormalities and found this… "Most studies thus far have shown that the risk of birth defects after ICSI is the same as for babies conceived through IVF without ICSI, and for those conceived naturally . However, some studies have suggested that having IVF with or without ICSI might increase the risk for birth defects."

Yes me too, eating nice and healthy, I don't have much of an appetite with the worry but I'm making sure I'm eating all the right things, I miss my crisps! Lol… and caffeine.

Yes please do keep me updated, especially as we'll be going through it at similar times. I wish you all the best and if I can help in anyway please do say. A good friend has just conceived through IVF via a donor, she treated the entire treatment like a military operation and has been wonderful with tips and advice, so any questions you may have I can pass by her, it will probably help me too.
Will you try acupuncture its recommended and meant to compliment IVF?

 

Hi TierraFirma,

Congratulations on your success, that's lovely news.

Question…You had a good no. of eggs collected on your first cycle however only a small no. made it to blastocyst, was a reason given to why this could have been?- Only because it made me think and question whether there is reduced no. of blastocysts with ICSI due to sperm quality.

Do you mind me asking where you were treated?

My friend did visualisation too and said it really helped, I don't really understand it but will definitely look into it. Thanks for your advice, yes positivity is so important, I will work at it… promise!

 

Hi Dory10,

Zero, i'm sorry to hear that... how are you both now?

Thanks about the herb warming. I know I will not be able to take any herbs once treatment starts so will check with clinic about when I should stop and also check about my other half too, thanks.

Proxeed was recommended to us too however he's already taking Pregnacare Before Conception for men and another vitamin by one of the consultants we saw.

Do you mind me asking if any of your cycles worked?

Thank you for the well wishes 

 

Hi Hayley

Yes each of our cycles has resulted in a pregnancy although we lost our first 2 babies at 13 & 23 weeks so very hard. We have a beautiful little girl and I'm currently pregnant.  It's been a really difficult journey at times and has certainly taken a lot out of us and tested us in many ways but without it we'd never have had those babies.

Dory
Xxx

 

Hi Dory,

Sent you a private message xx

Hayley

 

Hi Hayley,

Thanks for your reply. It’s good to read your comments.

If I’m honest, my partner coped really badly for several months. At first he was in denial but once it hit him he felt emasculated and withdrew into himself, felt really guilty about putting me through treatment and almost pushed me away as he thought I was better off without him.
Took a lot of late night talks and repetitive conversations to make him see we’re in this together and I wasn’t going anywhere. He still feels bad but is coping much better.

That’s interesting about the ICSI v natural conception. I like that version better!

That’s very kind of you about your friend. It must be good to have someone near to you who understands how it feels. The only person I physically know who has gone through it is a work colleague who had ivf 20 years ago. People often think that once you have an assisted fertility baby that the next one will come naturally but I’m not sure it will if it’s male factor...

I’ve also heard good things about acupuncture but feel it’s too late for me to do this cycle. I assume you need appointments prior to starting the meds? Am I wrong?

I had a bit of spotting this morning so was hoping AF was on its way so I can have my baseline scan. I’ve never wanted a period so much! 

Have you come to any decision regarding clinics?

Xx


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That sounds about right, mine went through and is still going through similar and I uttered those same words "I'm not going anywhere." It's hard for both sides, our situation is still so raw, I still find myself breaking out into tears.

She's fab, we work together so it helps but even when she was on holiday last week she messaged or called every day to answer any questions and offer advice, she's been great.
You may not have lots of people around you who understand but you have Fertility Friend 
… there's so many old wives tales or success stories, the main thing I guess is to focus on own individual situations, one thing I've learnt throughout this entire process from trying to conceive naturally up until now is every woman and every situation is unique.
I work with a lovely lady, we often have brief chats in the kitchen and as time went on we began to disclose more about each other to one another, she often would talk about her son and call him her miracle baby. I never knew in detail her situation but knew as a couple her and her husband had fertility issues and she'd mentioned IVF a couple of times. Anyways I reached out to her this week, as overtime we've become closer and I wanted to know more about her IVF, I later disclosed to her my situation. Anyways she explained she had 2 blocked fallopian tubes! Had a series of repeat tests here in the UK and abroad and they all showed the same thing… blocked tubes. She had 3 failed IVF cycles and then conceived her son naturally!!!!!!! She conceived again last year at 39 however unfortunately that pregnancy ended in miscarriage. So it just goes to show there'll always be one!

NO, it's not too late. I don't want to preach to you, I'm a big believer in independent research and making decisions yourself but do want to share . Acupuncture isn't mandatory but some clinics suggest it. I've been told and read that on the day of embryo transfer its encouraged, before transfer and after transfer (so yep twice in the same day) and ideally a few times leading up to transfer so so as the treatment begins. It's not cheap, and not all women do it and go on to conceive so it's not a must, I just don't want you thinking it's too late.
If you do decide to do it don't just go to anyone, ask around, where you are being treated may have a recommendation and it also may be offered on the NHS. I'm seeing a Chinese lady recommend through my friend, Lin her name is she's lovely really believes what she says. Do I believe it….? Not too sure but it's worth a shot I guess. Some things you have to question and take with a pinch of salt. If you have any questions just ask and any tips that she gives me I'm happy to share with you as long as you don't laugh, it's Chinese medicine so a bit out there lol, she said "No cold foods we want to keep the womb nice and warm" I don't have to start that yet as I haven't started treatment. So she means lots of stews, and warm foods, no salads etc.

Haha, I say the same thing when we're trying naturally you don't want to see AF and now we want to start treatment we want to see her so bad. Mine is on her way, all the signs are there. We've decided against this cycle, we're aiming to start next cycle, there's too much to get our head around its only been 2 weeks. We're still yet to decide on a clinic we think we know which one but will make our decision this weekend, with work its hard sometimes coming home to read brochures and study all the literature. It's fine we'll get there.

So, how are you feeling about starting from what you say could be sometime next week?- excited?

I'm no clinician or expert in anyway bit please do let me know if I can help in anyway.

 

Hi Hayley

I haven’t any experience of the clinics you mention but I am the proud mummy of a 2.5yo boy conceived from our first icsi cycle, and currently pregnant w twins from our second. We have sever MF issues and my partner was devastated when we got that news. The consultant who told us was awful and just said that their clinic (Woking Nuffield) ‘didn’t do male factor’ and we left devastated with no hope or information. Anyway after much research, soul searching etc we found dr Ramsay, who got sperm through a surgical retrieval. Not a lot, but enough. He is the UK leading expert in mF and was simply wonderful. We also used the lister in London who were also brilliant from the off. You’ll see in my history it’s not been simple but icsi can and does work.
My recommendations are

- don’t panic at the diagnosis. It’s not always as awful as it seems
- find an expert and talk to them ASAP. We didn’t qualify for any nhs treatment because my OH has an older daughter (what a miracle given what we know now) and initially relied on nhs referrals and investigations which took forever. We soon realised that paying a little we could get a consult (wenpaid £200 for anconsukt with mr Ramsay) and also that our medical insurance would coverninverstigations, but not treatment which does things up a lot!
- take recommendations. Don’t just go to your nearest clinic. As you can see from our experience they don’t all do male factor - or at least don’t have in depth understanding. Find one who does even if you have to travel further.

We did acupuncture for me throughout our successful cycles and I’d also recommend mel brown nutritionist. We had a 3 month ‘get ready’ diet and nutrition plan which I ams sure helped iurbtreatment be successful.

Good luck xx

 

Hi Jessica,

Thank you for your message.

What a lovely story, a smile beamed across my face, soon to be parents of 3 

What an awful start you had with the clinic- however it worked in the end.

Yes I'm always one for recommendations. It's between 2 clinics, London Women's Clinic-Harley Street where a friend has been and recently conceived through IVF and spoke highly of the team or Guys Private, part of Guys and St Thomas Hospital, where I work and where I know the team.

Yes acupuncture is already in the bag, we've been referred to an acupuncturist, who my friend used, she's a former midwife at Kings College Hospital. My partner and I are both taking herbs she prescribed which I'll need to stop before I commence treatment (hoping to start next month)

Thanks so much for the tips…
- Mel Brown Nutrition is this something I can research online or a clinic where I need to attend. We've googled diet and all the key and important foods to eat, where you quite regimented with your diet? Or did you allow the occasional treat?

Did your partner have acupuncture or just yourself?

Thanks so much for the guidance and well wishes.

 

Thanks Hayley. If you google mel brown nutrition you’ll find her. She is quite expensive but in my opinion def worth it. The first time we did a full cycle we were super strict for three months and honestly have never been healthier. Having a regime designed for you is great. The second round we were lightly less strict, but went with main elements of the diet and supplements, actually doing a few swaps for slightly cheaper supplements and also using our own judgement rather than going back to mel as we felt we knew enough to manage alone.

As we had the sperm on ice, it was only me that did acupuncture, and I did it from three months before every cycle weekly, and then for the first three months of the pregnancy. I think it’s helped, who could know - but there are plenty of studies liking acupuncture with a higher ivfsuccess rate and lower miscarriage rates - but you need a fertility specialist. Plenty of people don’t do it, and also have babies - but it helped me.

Any questions just shout xx

 

https://www.melaniebrownnutrition.com/

Here you go!

 

Hey Hayley

I went to gcrm in Glasgow for both my treatments. My lack of fertilised embryos they think was down to just not mature enough and poorer quality. I thought it was a good idea to have lots of eggs but quality is better than quantity and sadly mine didn’t seem great but it only takes that one good one to work so ty not to stress about numbers.

I had my hubby take
Selenium
Fertility blend
Co e q10
L-arginine
Vit c
Zinc
Vit b12
L-carnitine
Pregnacare

Think he rattled when he walked after this but there was an improvement but obviously we can’t say for definite it was all these tablets

I also took
Vit c
Vit e
Zinc
Iron
Co e q10
Vit b complex
Royal jelly
Bee pollen

I also used moxa sticks, there’s videos On YouTube about using it in ivf either done professionally or yourself at home, don’t know if it made a difference but it made me feel like it helped and I guess that’s part of the positivity and visualisation

 

Hi Hayley,

I promise it does get easier overtime and a little less raw. It's always going to be sensitive but hopefully we can all use this to make us stronger and closer as couples xx
I suppose treatment on the nhs, although it takes a long term to go through, does have the benefit of letting things sink in and slowly come to terms with things. Have you been recommended any counselling? My partner wouldn't go but you might be able to persuade yours?

Yes you're totally right, there's lots of lovely ladies on here who completely understand what it's like. I hope we can all support each other as much as we can.

That is a lovely story about your work colleague [emoji4] so happy for her. Someone I work with has also recently fallen pregnant naturally at the age of 46 after years of failed ivf treatments. I'm not 100% sure why they failed as we haven't discussed it but she's over the moon with her miracle baby due in December. There is hope!

I still feel a bit dubious about the acupuncture, I've tried to find some research that doesn't say it's not just the fact it relaxes you that helps you get pregnant.. the idea of placing needles in me doesn't sound very relaxing. I think I might be more inclined to try reiki instead... do you know where they place the needles for ivf? Is it on your stomach?

Maybe it's the diet/health regime that goes alongside the acupuncture that helps too?

Where about's is Lin based? Haha I've heard many bizarre cultural things too, such as not washing your hair once you've found out your pregnant as it can increase the chance of miscarriage! I'm not sure I could cope with that one!

That sounds like a sensible decision, waiting to find the right clinic for you. It gives you more time to benefit from your herbs and vitamins too [emoji4] let me know which clinic you decide on, I'd like to hear your thoughts on them.

AF arrived today! I had some spotting late last night so was hopeful and progressed to full flow before 1pm today so the clinic count this as day 1. I phoned them to arrange my baseline scan which they've booked for tomorrow (has to be between 1-3 days and day 3 would be Saturday, they're closed weekends) so fingers crossed they say all is good to go and show me how to administer the injections etc..! I don't think it's quite sunk in yet, I think I'm secretly worried they'll tell me something's wrong and they have to wait another cycle.
I don't fancy taking those norethisterone tablets again and I've planned time off work also! So much to think about with ICSI/IVF.
Nothing seems more important right now though than this.

Thank you. The same goes for you too, I don't know everything about everything but hopefully by sharing experiences it can help in some way. We can do this! [emoji6] xx

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Hi Tierra,

Did you do the moxibustion yourself? Or did you have it done alongside acupuncture?
I’ve only heard of it being used to turn a breech baby before (with good evidence) but I suppose it’s still womb related!

Thanks x


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Hey montymoomoo

Yeah I used it on myself, I was told to hold it as close to the public hair area as possible without it burning or getting too hot of course and move it around the whole area for a few minutes twice a day, the sticks do smell like some kind of marijuana though haha I was a little nervous using them so I did it outside due to the smell but there are ones that are smokeless so that would prob have been the better option. To get 
I didn’t have acupuncture. My hubby had Chinese medicine and acupuncture and cupping as the issues were on his end I just took the supplements

X

 

Haha tierra, I've got images of you in the garden trying not to set fire to your public hair! I wonder what your neighbours thought! Doesn't matter though, it worked right? What's the rationale behind it?
You did well to get your partner to agree to those treatments [emoji4]

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Hi Jessica,

I gave Mel a quick Google this AM, yes expensive indeed lol! I'm not too sure the other half and I can afford to pay for IVF, acupuncture and a nutritionist…
We're following a heathy diet, we've both not been drinking for some time as we were trying naturally before the diagnosis, I gave up caffeine months ago, and don't drink decaf (as of the last few months) we don't smoke.
We've stocked up on all the foods meant to help fertility and hoping it works… we'll also follow the food tips of our herbalist/acupuncturist.

Yes I heard of these acupuncture studies, I will definitely be doing it, I'm intrigued by it. Yes our lovely lady is former midwife of Kings College Hospital and was referred to us by a friend who is has conceive through IVF.

Thanks so much for the tips and well wishes…. Finger crossed

 

I see… I guess the saying stands "its quality not quantity" - You got there in the end and that's what matters

Royal jelly, I'll Google that, along with the Moxa Sticks I'm not familiar with them. Visualisation I've heard is meant to be beneficial I'll be doing that for sure, I've heard of the Zita West visualisation, is that what you used?

Thanks so so much for all tips

Hugs

 

Hi,

Aww, thanks for your opening message, I agree!

We have through one of the clinics however I'm not too sure the other half will be interested, he struggles to speak openly about how he feels. He has an older sister who he is close to, he reached out to her, his older brother too and they've been fab. So he may not be speaking to a professional but I take comfort knowing he has people he can speak with other than me.

Really, wow! See there is hope for us all lol! Good for her… , is this her first baby?

I'm a very sceptical person, when my friend initially told me that she was seeing a herbalist/acupuncturist, I dismissed it, months later when I found myself in a similar situation, I've softened lol. I'm still sceptical however after meeting with Lin and doing some research I'm open to it and keen to learn.

No, no needles in the stomach, that was my fear too, I can't remember where they place the needles but before and after pregnancy for my friend there were no needles on the tummy….

I've not heard of Reiki, I'll Google it.

Lin is based in Brockley, so near Hither Green not too far from Lewisham, this isn't near where I live however I work in London Bridge so it's only a couple of stops on the train from there. Lin works out of home during the week otherwise has a clinic in London Bridge at the weekend however that costs more.

There are some odd things that Lin has said. No cold foods, no lettuce, the womb needs to be kept warm, lots of warm foods, stews etc. No cold feet, wear socks. Avoid fruits except blueberries and blackberries! Lol! I haven't heard about the hair washing lol--- how long is a person meant to go without washing their hair lol.

I'll definitely let you know once we've picked our clinic 

She's arrived, aww  and so its begins, I'm so excited for you. Mine arrived today, the cramps 
Let me know how you get on today and if you're able to get a scan today, good luck 

Hugs

 

Hi,

Aww, thanks for your opening message, I agree!

We have through one of the clinics however I'm not too sure the other half will be interested, he struggles to speak openly about how he feels. He has an older sister who he is close to, he reached out to her, his older brother too and they've been fab. So he may not be speaking to a professional but I take comfort knowing he has people he can speak with other than me.

Really, wow! See there is hope for us all lol! Good for her… , is this her first baby?

I'm a very sceptical person, when my friend initially told me that she was seeing a herbalist/acupuncturist, I dismissed it, months later when I found myself in a similar situation, I've softened lol. I'm still sceptical however after meeting with Lin and doing some research I'm open to it and keen to learn.

No, no needles in the stomach, that was my fear too, I can't remember where they place the needles but before and after pregnancy for my friend there were no needles on the tummy….

I've not heard of Reiki, I'll Google it.

Lin is based in Brockley, so near Hither Green not too far from Lewisham, this isn't near where I live however I work in London Bridge so it's only a couple of stops on the train from there. Lin works out of home during the week otherwise has a clinic in London Bridge at the weekend however that costs more.

There are some odd things that Lin has said. No cold foods, no lettuce, the womb needs to be kept warm, lots of warm foods, stews etc. No cold feet, wear socks. Avoid fruits except blueberries and blackberries! Lol! I haven't heard about the hair washing lol--- how long is a person meant to go without washing their hair lol.

I'll definitely let you know once we've picked our clinic

She's arrived, aww and so its begins, I'm so excited for you. Mine arrived today, the cramps
Let me know how you get on today and if you're able to get a scan today, good luck

Hugs

 

Haha tierra, I've got images of you in the garden trying not to set fire to your public hair! I wonder what your neighbours thought! Doesn't matter though, it worked right? What's the rationale behind it?
You did well to get your partner to agree to those treatments [emoji4]

Haha I was more worried of the neighbors thinking I was smoking marijuana, it's really a strong smell but yeah if things help then it's worth it. I believe the rationale behind it is that the heat stimulated blood flow to the uterus, I did it during 2ww
He was a little huffy about doing all that but I just said there's a chance it'll help so it's worth a go at least. The culling and acupuncture he liked as it was relaxing but he drew the line at the Chinese herbal tea 😂 that stuff tasted bad but then my hubby had a bad gag reflex so it probably wasn't actually that bad haha

 

Hi,

So I went for my baseline scan yesterday [emoji4] I was really anxious they'd say my ovaries had cysts and I would have to repeat the down reg stage but luckily all was fine! My lining was 3.6mm and needed to be below 5mm so all good.
They did give me dilapan to dilate my cervix a bit due to a difficult dummy embryo transfer. It sat in my cervix for two hours and then they removed it. Wasn't very pleasant having it in but hopefully it's done the trick!
I then had a meeting with the nurse who gave me my protocol, I start the menopur tonight around 8pm and go back for a scan and blood test on Tuesday. From there it's alternate day scans and daily bloods. Egg collection currently planned for 26th July.
She told me to eat plenty of protein and drink lots of water to keep OHSS at bay.
Glad to be able to get to this stage.. hopefully it'll continue to go to plan 🤞🏻

Hayley I'm glad your partner has got siblings he trusts and opens up to. He needs an outlet and I'm sure they're very supportive.

Yes it's her first baby! Was a very happy surprise [emoji4]

Yeah I get what you mean about softening towards these ideas. I'm now thinking it can't hurt to try it, I'll try and find someone a bit nearer to my clinic who does acupuncture.

No cold foods and socks! I feel that's difficult to do in this weather, the socks bit especially lol I've heard similar things about balancing yin and yang, spicy, hot foods increase your yang and cold foods increase your yin. So I'm guessing bubbas prefer more yang haha

I'm sure the lady I spoke to said she couldn't wash her hair until her baby shower! She said it derives originally from when women used to wash their hair in the rivers and would have to bend down etc, they believed it contributed to miscarriages so thought it was safer not to do it.

Good luck choosing a clinic this weekend, hopefully your cramps subside too, be kind to yourself. Let me know what you decide.

By the way Hayley, did they give your partner any indication of why he has fertility issues? Are they looking into it?

Tierra, I told my partner yesterday that you'd convinced yours to go for acupuncture and cupping and his face went pale thinking I was going to tell him he also had to go! Lol he feels he's getting off lightly just taking the supplements now.

I'm going to order some moxa sticks to try in the 2ww. Did you work at all during the 2ww?

Love to all xx

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